Clever Angle
Helping people find work that they love through the stories of others. Join host Tevin McGee as he interviews a guest from a different field of work every week to give the listeners a better understanding of what jobs there are in the market and the roadmap of how to get there. Come along on this journey as he searches for the answer to the question of is college in 2024 overrated? With the boom of online learning and swelling nationwide student loan debt Tevin is on a quest to better inform his audience of which career paths NEED to go to college and which paths may have a different way of achieving your goal. So if you are undecided on your future career or curious about a certain field and want to hear from people that are in the trenches of that career already then this podcast is for you.
Clever Angle
#42 Marko Babac: From Courts to Casinos: The Unforeseen Adventures of a Tennis Lover
Experience the rollercoaster journey of guest Marco Babic, who lived through the tumultuous 90s in Yugoslavia, as he shares his passion for sports, his encounters with famous athletes, and his unique insights into tennis. Have you ever considered how living through a civil war and experiencing hyperinflation might change one's perspective on life and sports? You're about to find out. Marco's narrative delves into the world of 90s sports, revealing his admiration for icons like Tony Kukoc, Andre Agassi, and Mike Tyson, and his eventual shift from the casino industry back to his first love - tennis.
We'll follow Marco's journey as he transitions from dealing at casinos to playing and coaching tennis, illustrating how his background in high stakes gambling influenced his playing style. There's a thrilling tale of a chance encounter with a fellow tennis lover in a casino leading to a certification as a player. Marco also shares his insights into the gender imbalance in beginner tennis and his active efforts to involve more men in this sport.
If you've ever wondered how a tennis coach might fare in the world of farming, Marco's got you covered. In the face of the COVID-19 pandemic, he underwent a significant lifestyle change, moving from the city to a 40-acre property in Arkansas, leading to unexpected ventures. From buying cows for personal food supply to starting a nationwide beef business, Marco's life takes surprising turns. Join us for this captivating narrative that promises to inspire, entertain, and maybe even make you look at tennis, and life, in a whole new way.
- Sports Enthusiasts Discuss 90s Sports
- Discovering American Sports and Tennis
- Discovering Tennis and Court Surfaces
- From Tennis to Dealing
- From Blackjack to Tennis
- Evolution of Tennis Coaching and Risk-Taking
- Las Vegas Tennis to Coaching Doubles
- Relocating and Starting Over Amidst COVID
- Imbalancing Gender Ratios in Tennis
- Job to Nationwide Farm Business
- Cooking Steaks, Living Off the Land
Link to Marko's Brisket Giveaway!
Marko's Tennis Coaching Site-
Marko's Farm Business Website-
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All right, all right, welcome back to another episode of the Clever Angle podcast is episode 42. And I have coach Marco Babic and he's a local tennis coach in the community that I personally work with and my brother works with as well. So, marco, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks a lot, tevin. I was very excited when you, when we started talking about that you're doing podcasts, because I really enjoyed this kind of stuff. You know, talking about certain things in life, how you end up there, how are me and you talking right now? It's just, life is so interesting. It can take you so many different paths and for me, it's definitely it's a blessing for me to, to to be alive, basically what I where I grew up and how everything happened, and and to be here and running two businesses now in in United States. It's really, like I said, it's it's a blessing. So I appreciate you inviting me on.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely. Have you ever been on a podcast before?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I've been on a couple of podcasts, but nothing, nothing too big or anything like that. I had some people that wanted to hear the story where I come from.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's awesome. So, yeah, well, I definitely want to dive directly into your origin story. So where did you grow up and where are you originally from?
Speaker 2:So, I grew up in. It was ex Yugoslavia. In the nineties, If you heard of it. We had major issues with hyperinflation, civil war going on and we split in different. Basically, all the states became countries. We didn't have as many states as you know, for instance, United States, but it was still, I believe, six or seven, I forget. It's been now close to 25, 30 years since I left and they all became countries and this is. It was Croatia where I grew up. It was on the coast of Croatia. If anybody on your channel, including yourself, if you remember, for instance, Bulls from the nineties, Tony Kukoc, is from where I'm from.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Okay, dino Rajak. He played the center for the Celtics At the same time Kukoc was playing. And then you know, a lot of basketball players that played in NBA comes from that region of ex Yugoslavia, like, for instance, rajen Petrovic. He played for the Nets. If you remember, he died in a car crash, unfortunately somewhere in Germany, and there is a bunch of players that come from there. So a lot of people would know, especially in earlier days when Jordan still played. If you mentioned Tony Kukoc, everybody would know Croatia, because that's because a lot of people wouldn't even know where Croatia is.
Speaker 1:So yeah, Are you familiar with the basketball player I just I forgot to mention him.
Speaker 2:of course he played for the Sacramento Kings.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, yeah, he was one of the guys that during the 2000s Lakers series, that when he played with Chris Weber and Lottie Divock and Mike Bibby and all them. That was a king same that I remember watching and I think his son is in the basketball now, but he was an incredible three point shooter. And that's when I think of people that are, you know, not from the United States he's one of the people I think of first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I can't believe I forgot Divas and him. So Yakovic was actually my son, had his jersey with Kings somewhere out there. I got to find it to pass on for some couple of younger ones. I got, but yes, with Chris Weber. I remember Mike Bibby, you're right. Who else was on that team? That was, that was a fun team. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if it wasn't for Shaq and Kobe, they definitely would have got a championship. I think Doug Christie was on that team. It was my baby, doug. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I remember him. Yes, I followed a lot of sports. I wanted those guys that I'm probably the only I'm not going to say the only, but one of the few European guys especially my age coming in at like 18 when I showed up that that follows NFL and college football Like I. I I can break down plays like you know it's. I just love the game, I love the competition of any sport. So I've been following sports Basically. I've been in it myself and I've been following it my whole life, from boxing to UFC, I mean you name it. But I'm a really big fan of the nineties sports, though I have not been following much of NBA, like I wouldn't even able to tell you last maybe 10 years who won so many championships. But if you're me and you start talking back like nineties or maybe even early 2000, I was really following a lot more. I thought the game was a lot more fun back then. It was more quality, I think.
Speaker 2:Overall tennis, I really think the nineties was the best, best competition when you look at Agassi, samperas and those. Those that's just, like I said, from my perspective, what I enjoyed watching. I love to watch Ali fight, even though there was a little bit, definitely before me. But then going into Tyson, I remember in Europe as kids because it's big time change, whatever the time, tyson thought it would be one guy in the town that would have the game, the fight on and we would stay up. If it's like four AM, we can be 12 years old, it did not matter. These old school Europeans would smoke cigarettes and the whole room, I remember, would be filled with smoke and drinks and everybody would watch Tyson fight, like with Holyfield and all that. So I really, like I said, I'm kind of a nineties sports junkie. That's me.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely, and I definitely resonate with that a lot too, because I'm a Detroit Pistons fan. Obviously the 80s and 90s Pistons were a little bit before my time, but I've done extensive research on that time and how physical the games were and back with when the Lakers in the late 80s and the Celtics and then obviously you had the Bulls in the 90s were pretty dominant. In the 90s, yeah, the Jazz was in there for a year and then the Spurs were kind of at the turn of the century. That's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you had Tim Duncan and David Robinson and all of them. So I've been a huge basketball fan, even before tennis. You know, nba is something that I've followed pretty much my whole life and then I got into football and then tennis is something that you know a new love of mine. But it's interesting that you kind of resonate with the underway when you said that you kind of just been a sports lover and as I get older I start to appreciate all types of competition.
Speaker 2:Yes, Like I remember about 15 years ago I would go and on the binge watch with I think it was Steve Stable or something like that. It was the ESPN archives that would go into, you know, as you know, I'm a Bears fan, yeah.
Speaker 1:Playing tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Right, because I grew up which I'll tell my story in a little bit how I ended up there and where I'm at now and what happened in between. But yeah, with the Lions and all of that, back in the day with the Bears and all the competition and looking in old school when Peyton was running back and you know, the Bears obviously had that once Super Bowl, which was, like it seems, 10,000 years ago. But we're so proud of that still from the 80s and talk about it every day. But man, that was. I enjoy watching those old school games on that Steve Stable I think that's how I pronounce his name, I think he passed and that and that show hasn't been on for a while, but I love to watch, like Pittsburgh Steelers against Ravens in the snow, like I liked a type of a 10-3 type of a game in the snow yeah.
Speaker 2:Like I loved, like Ray Lewis's intensity on the field Bears defense back in the day I remember Matt Forte when I watched the game. I might have seen that one live because I lived in the city actually of Chicago. I can hear from Soldier Field where I live like we would be a touchdown if I was not at the game. And then when he would get popped by, let's say, vikings were in town or the Packers or the Lions and you know for the NFC North Riverly, and he would get popped and I and I hear it in that cold, you know, in January, right, and I said how is he holding on to the football? Like there is no way, like this guy would go five feet off the ground in the in the ice cold, you know turf, and he would land on his head, almost helmet shoulder, and he gets up and just picks up another play and gets the first down. I mean that's the kind of I'm not saying that football is not tough. Now those guys there is tough as anyone. I just don't think it's not even comparable and this is obviously up to debate.
Speaker 2:Some people may say no, it's way. In my perspective, in my personal opinion, it's not even close. And they change so many rules that I don't want to see people get hurt by any means, like concussion, broken neck. I don't. I'm not saying I want to see a guy hurt to make it entertaining, but their job is to hurt people. That's what their job is as a football player. They're supposed to be not going to break your knee but they're. The harder they hit, the more chances of you dislodging the football or whatever it is to cause a fumble and recover it. If you give a guy a little lick on the neck, he's just going to look at you and score a touchdown every time and I think the game has turned so much. But I don't want to digress from you know to talk about football the whole time or NBA.
Speaker 2:But it's overall. Today's society, I think overall, has changed so much over the past 20, 30 years. I think people in general became a lot softer in general.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what.
Speaker 2:I noticed.
Speaker 1:You know you're absolutely right and you know we could definitely have some good conversations about the NFC North and I know that they just came out with a documentary about Barry Sanders. I was watching that the other day and talking about the 90s lines and how much buzz that was around the lines at that point. And you know, football was something that I honestly didn't get really into until probably like the end of high school, like I just never really was interested in the game. I was focused mostly on basketball and track. That's where my athletic background is in. So I was watching a lot of NBA, I was watching a lot of college basketball and you know I was focusing on track. But you know, it's like when I discovered football, I felt like I was missing out on something for, you know, for a good amount of time, and I felt that way with tennis. So, being in Europe, being a European, how did you when was your first introduction to like some of the more American sports like basketball and football?
Speaker 2:Okay, well, I was just going to get into that to tie it up with. Well, yeah, there is a little construction here going on. I showed up, basically to my friend's house that was not friend at the time, yet it was the connection through the priest that ended up getting all my paperwork to leave war where I was living. So he said, oh, we're going to this family. They speak a language. They got three sons, right, they're all close to your age, some of them are a little older. So I was pretty excited because I knew how to communicate. I can put sentences together in English, you know, but I was not comfortable hanging out with, you know, american people that were born here, because I would not understand what they're saying. Like it would take me a while to put, to connect all the dots, especially if there is slang, different type of dialect, accent, I mean from, you know, down south. Or I ended up working in a casino with a lot of people that I did not understand the word they say because of the way they pronounce things. So it was very hard for me. So I was very excited to meet these guys that would speak. They were born in the United States but they was fluent in Croatian or Serbian, right. So when we showed up we played some ping pong, which I play very competitively too, and they were really good. So I found that very entertaining. I was kind of in the machine right away because there is competition, because that's all I basically know how to do is compete and like I enjoy doing. That's what I meant to say and we had a great time.
Speaker 2:And they said, oh, we got the Bears Lions game, talking about various standards, right. And I said, what is that Like? What are we going to watch? And they said, well, it's American football. And I was totally making jokes out of that, like it's basically soccer. Don't mess with soccer. If you're European soccer, that's like it. You know, there is no second thing to soccer when it comes to it. Like what, rugby, football? No, it's soccer, right.
Speaker 2:So I got there and I had no idea what was going on. I did not know what the first down was. They had a cool setup back in the day, those old TVs, and you know they were not flat screens and I thought it was like the coolest thing I've seen. You know, the ground, with the bulky part in the back, with some surround sound, and we're watching Lions Bears game, right, and it was in Chicago at Soldier Field, and Sanders, of course, was the running back at the time I forget for the QB was I'll think of it in a second.
Speaker 2:This was 1996, I believe Right, and I said why is everybody screaming? This guy just ran for one yard and everybody screaming like the game was won or something. But I did not understand. It was fourth and one and one of them I forgot was it the Bears or the Lions. They needed that one yard to basically ice the game for, to run the clock out now, right, because it was a closed game. And I asked them what is the first down, second down? It took about five minutes and I immediately fell in love with the game because I understood what it takes to hold on to the football versus giving it away, just the basic rule. And that's how I became, because they were all living in that area in Chicago and Indiana border and everybody was either Notre Dame fan for college football or the Bears fan. There was some cold fans in between because it was a border of Indiana. I don't know if you heard of Gary, indiana, michael Jackson was born there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, I kind of lived in that area close to Gary. So this is it was about 45 minutes to actually downtown Chicago and that's where I ended up moving from that Indiana Illinois area back to not back but in the in the middle of the city, and that's when I was able to get to more games and all that and meet a lot more Bears fans, because now I was right there. So that's how that whole thing happened. So it was. It was basically religion for me. It was a big deal to watch NFL games and college was a little bit later.
Speaker 1:No, that's awesome. So we talked about how you got into that and when did you start. When did you start getting in the tennis?
Speaker 2:So tennis, I played soccer and I played basketball as as a kid growing up in Europe, in Croatia. But my dad told me one day, and I'll never forget that he said you're pretty good at basketball, but you're just, you're just not that good and soccer is basically just not your thing, which which I agreed on. So it was kind of like a cold hard fact because I was so competitive. All my buddies were playing soccer and basketball. So we were kind of trying to figure out which sport I would take on and a war started to happen. We tried to like get outside even though we were not supposed to. So it was like this old parking lot and we set up some really ugly looking net, whatever. We found One of those like if you ever seen those Idaho potatoes, the bags that hold yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So we had some of those we found in like in the trash and we put like two posts on the old parking lot and we had these.
Speaker 2:We had the Sponge Ball, kind of like a softball, and some plastic rackets that some somebody had and we started playing. So I was about 10 and I just honestly, as soon as I picked up that racket and started playing, I just fell in love with it. It did not take too long for me to to to say this is going to be the sport I want to do. But I understood the difference between I'm pretty good with that softball because you have a lot more time to set up for the shots. But then the war kind of slowed down a little bit at certain months and we were looking for some tennis courts and the coach that was trying to scramble, you know, to find some money to pay for the lesson and it was the red clay, kind of like when you watch French Open Red Play not hard, true, the one that's great, it's more like it looks like like dirt. You know what I'm talking about the actual red.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So how old are you when you finally found tennis?
Speaker 2:It was between 10 and 12. So it sounds like that was pretty young. But for tennis to get at any kind of better level, like college type of tennis and stuff, 10, 12 is a little late. It's possible. I mean, you look at Yanik's center nowadays I forget what other sport he played. He started tennis even right around that age when I'm talking about. So it's possible. But it's to get really up there, right. So yeah, it was between 10 and 12. And then I started doing lessons and he was on play courts and, like I said, I just develop passion.
Speaker 2:I think what really helped me was playing with that softball on that parking lot to read the ball, be able to set up, and then footwork from basketball and soccer really helped for me to get there. I was not the fastest guy, but a lot faster than now Put it that way Like it was easy for me to move around the court all day long and then it just became that was it. So I started competing in the tournaments but between the war going on and everything that we went through, it wasn't very steady, so it would be months that I would not even pick up a racket. So I won a couple of national tournaments and all that. I was playing a lot of singles. I was never really into doubles as much, but it was some double stuff. So tennis just started to be a thing.
Speaker 2:And this is where I can tie it into how it happened in the United States. What has happened? I had a chance to possibly I'm not saying I would have if the war wasn't going on to play at the really high college level, maybe pro possibly. But I knew without training as much as I should, there was no way. So I kind of had a really bad taste in my mouth from tennis because all of that was kind of taken from me because of the war, the opportunity, whether it's just college or anything more than that, right. So when I came to United States I was 18 and I have not played now for a couple of years. There is no way I can compete at a men's higher performance level, like a five or something. Yeah, the way I really wanted to, because I was not training enough. That was.
Speaker 1:So you? So you started playing tennis at 12. When did you? You said it was kind of off and on between that because of the war. So you're telling me like within a few years you were already winning tournaments.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I was, I was. I believe tennis was so natural to me as maybe doing podcasts for you, yeah, and a lot of other stuff I really can't Like. When it comes to fixing things, I'm probably the worst person ever. If you want me to fix your cabinet or something, that's why I always space somebody else. That's why you hear something happening right now, like there is a lot of things I'm just really not even interested in. But if I find interest in something, I kind of go all in. That's my personality. And it didn't take too long.
Speaker 2:For tennis, it was not a really high level when the first one I won, it was kind of like let's just call it intermediate level for your listeners not to go into. What was it? 3, 0, 3, 5, blah, blah, blah. It was more like intermediate level. And then, two years after that, it didn't take too long, I just developed a really big serve, even on clay. That was it A huge forehand and a big serve. And I was able to upset a lot of guys that were playing for years before me. They just did not have answers for it. And then I would sneak into the net on top of that, even on clay, I would just go in after a big forehand and I would finish the points a lot quicker. I basically played almost like a grass court tennis, which is, as you know, serve and volley type of fast surface on clay.
Speaker 2:That was my plan and it really worked for me, like I was able to outpower guys, outsmart them in a way, not going into their game of you know, grinders, they slide all day long. You watch these European guys slide on the play court. They get everything back. You can't really beat them. You're playing 50 rallies. One point they get to every short ball.
Speaker 2:Like every time I see a guy that was like five foot six and huge legs, I said man, I'm in for a freaking brawl. I mean this guy is a wall, he's going to get everything back. So I was like no, you won't. So I was just coming in and even though clay slows the ball down a lot, so I would lose a lot of points because of that and some matches, because even if you have a huge serve, it does take away a lot of that away from you because the clay is the ball. He's hit, loses a lot of amp of the ground and they have enough time unless you clip the line or something, and that that's just kids. But yeah, it's. But again, big shot was my game plan and I was able to keep up with those guys that played for years. That's kind of what I figured out and I stuck with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I've got a question. So like, obviously you know a little bit about my tennis journey, when we went to sectionals for mixed state we encountered a team from Georgia and they were kind of perplexed that we were all playing on hard courts. So you, apparently, in Georgia the main surface is clay. So what is the biggest difference between playing on clay courts, playing on hard courts and then playing on grass courts?
Speaker 2:So, like I was saying, it's really the speed of the ball right. You have more time on clay to set up for the shot and you can construct points a lot better Because you have more time on. Let's say, the courts that we play on for the most part in the United States is hard courts, just basically cement, you can call it what it is. The ball would Get a lot, it goes faster, so the points sometimes a lot of times, finish a lot quicker, so the speed is a major difference. This is, for instance, if you look right now, what's going on in tennis, for since Pete Sampras retired and Agassi, so two American players right. We have not had top one in the United States in tennis for a long time. You're looking at Rafa, right from Spain. You look at Djokovic, serbian. You look at Federer, switzerland, right. Then you look at, right now, carlos Alcarez.
Speaker 1:Spain yeah.
Speaker 2:Around. I mean it's been a lot. And why is that? Because they learn, they know how to construct points. Ok, you got the flashy American players what I mean by that coming with huge serves, big four hands on hard courts. They can't win.
Speaker 2:On clay it's almost impossible because of the ball slows down a lot so the other guys can actually return it and once Spaniard or European returns the ball back into play, on play against American players, it's very hard for American player to win games, let alone sets or a match, because of the endurance and understanding that tennis is a chess game. You got to open up, you got to make a shot to open up for another play. Like a chess game, you don't play your move as one move, you play it as two moves ahead. And European players, I believe, developed that and I can vouch that from experience from playing on clay Because of the longer points and being able to understand, to dissect opponents, slowly make a move short ball, angle, deep ball Versus, like I said, American style of tennis, which is kind of what I implemented, without even being in America back in the day on clay court, Because I knew that was the only chance I can possibly beat these guys at the national level was just going big or go home.
Speaker 2:So that was. And if you get hot a little bit, yeah, you can have an upset Like what's his name? John is there, for instance. I'm sure you heard of him. Yeah, he's like 6'11" that guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, he plays more basketball. He would serve Like he got maybe third, fourth round French open. I could be wrong on this one. He might have made quarterfinals once and that's when he would get hot. Like everything would go in, he would paint the lines. Third was just huge. Even on clay the guys would not be able to return. Everything was going in so he would end up winning.
Speaker 2:But for the most part you don't see many big hitters. That's why Pete Sampras has never won French open, because his serve was not a factor as much as it is at Wimbledon. So to break it down, for you to win a grand slam meaning all of them, like few players did, like Agassi did it is probably one of the biggest accomplishments in sports. To win on clay, on grass, on hard chords, in Australia and open, and then as well in US Open, which, even though it's hard chords, but some of those surfaces, the way the chords are made, are faster or slower depending on how the chord was made. So it is very hard to complete all four slams. You can look up real quick if you want, if you have a setup in front of you, how many people actually won all four.
Speaker 1:It's almost you can count in one hand, yeah absolutely Obviously, the big three probably have won all four slams. I know Rafa is the king of clay is what he's named and he was one of the first people when I started to get in the tennis that I followed because he was a fellow left handed player. So I did some research on him. So I'm glad he's getting to come back for at least one more year. I know he's been hurt this past year but we'll get into a little bit of the conditioning of tennis because I personally think Yokovic is going to be like undisputably the greatest tennis player of all time, just because of the longevity that he's being able to do to still be able to compete at a high level at 35, 36 years old, which is tough. Tennis is a grinding body type of game, especially in singles, so just being able to watch him just in the short time that I followed tennis has been amazing to see how he's still being able to compete with these 20, 21 year old kids on any surface pretty much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and you just touched up on those guys. That's what I was also going to lead into as you look at, like you just said, the big three, this it's not typical that you hear that the top three players in the world, going back decades, can win on all surfaces. You're looking at, like I said, you're going into like well, I guess he did it A couple other older guys back in the day. But now to look at Rafa, the way he was able to to go from being still is, of course, king of Clay to end up winning US Open, to end up winning Wimbledon and working on his first serve. He knew he needed more power to win on hardcourts and all that.
Speaker 2:It is beyond ridiculous on so many levels and a lot of people don't understand that. They look at tennis as you just hit the ball back and forth To set up on one of those shots, especially on hardcourts. And the reason I say that? Because it's hard on your ankles, on your bones, any wrong movement, you're done OK, you tear your ACL, your MCL. I mean it is so hard on the body versus on play, it's softer right. And when you step and you put all your weight on that outside leg when you load up to hit the shot as a heavy ball comes in. Let's say from you know, djokovic is two handed backhand and it's flat 80 miles per hour. And for you to set up on a hard court to get so much leverage of the ground to get that ball back at maybe 70 or 80 miles back per hour, it is beyond incredible what they're able to do. It is so hot. Yeah, it's grueling, that's what it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know I never really understood tennis as far as like a game until I started playing. But then once you start playing, you start learning the basics of tennis. And then you watch Wimbledon and you watch some of the grand slams and some of these other tournaments. You realize how impressive it is to be able to do the things that they're doing Now. They make it look effortless because of professionals and then you know you go out there and it's it's hard to even hit with topspin, let alone do some of the shots that they're able to hit. So, getting back on track to kind of what you were talking about, you're 18 years old and you're you're in America. You had a bad taste in your mouth and you were going to go into a store before we got off on.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes. So I did not play. I did not play for several years and you know when you're 18 and you did not go to school much at all. We basically lived in the basement outside. Inside it was just crazy, right. There was nothing normal, everything was not normal. Right?
Speaker 2:So you come out here to United States, yeah, I can't just go to college because I'm not ready. English was like I said OK, I can understand a lot of stuff, I can communicate, but I'm not. You know, my academics overall was nowhere close to keep up. Anyone like about to graduate high school and go to college. Like. I never said what do I do, right?
Speaker 2:Well, tennis was like I said I I'm not going to say I hated tennis, but it really left bad taste in my mouth. I thought I had a chance to have a really different life and it wasn't meant to be. It just didn't happen. So I just put that on the back burner completely. Tennis is done, I'm not even competing, I'm not doing anything with it. So I decided I said you know what? I'm just going to get my GED, to get some kind of you know. So I feel like I'm doing something from that mess to kind of fit in normally, like I got a diploma, at least that right. I accomplished something right, which is kind of funny for GED.
Speaker 2:Even that was hard for me because the learning concept of things and to have discipline was not engraved in my head. Because of the lifestyle we had. I was basically a total loose cannon. It was kind of like a caged animal. When you let out of the basement at that age you can only imagine. You know how that would be chasing women all day long, whatever. Hopefully my wife is not listening. Whatever I was doing, it was not. I had no discipline. So I said I'm going to get that done.
Speaker 2:So what I did is I decided to join US military because I had all the paperwork green card and all that and I decided to go in. And then when I got there I was so immature that was not even going to work for me. Basically I was not mentally ready for it and I was supposed to be also sent back in that mess to be translating. I'm like what. So I was able to get out and then I ended up going into. I said maybe I turned 18. I need to find a job now. So military was done. It didn't last too long, but I served a little bit. I didn't learn much discipline. I was, like I said, a loose cannon getting in trouble with racing, all kinds of stupid stuff that you can name. That's where I was right. Just not leading into the right direction at all. So it took a little bit. I said I need to find a job to keep me away from getting in trouble.
Speaker 2:So I got into casino business. I started working in Gary, indiana. That was a Trump casino, believe it or not. That was a little boat like a ship that would take from Gary and you can kind of see the skyline of Chicago. And it was another one next to him. It was majestic star, I believe it was called. So there was a Trump casino, which was the ship, and a majestic star, which was a different owner of the other one. It was both casinos, right, and I ended up working there as a security guard, ended up working for as a security supervisor for USA Pageant that was happening in Gary, which was a lot of fun for me back when you're 19, 20 years old now that range 18 to 20. So I did that and I really enjoyed being in the casino and the action and all that. So I started working as a dealer.
Speaker 2:I went to school to become a dealer to deal all the games right. So I was doing all that and, where the story come, I dealt to Michael Jordan, scotty Pippen. I was in a high limit room. They would come in with their yacht, they would dock in Gary Indiana and they would go in and I thought I was a pretty good dealer so they would put me inside the high limits where you would make less mistakes with high end clients like that, and that was kind of like really cool. At the time I was really enjoying that right Dealing to Michael Jordan and he would come in more often than people realize.
Speaker 2:I don't know if all the true stories you know how media is, it's hard to believe anyone. He had these issues with gambling and all that. I don't know if that's true or not, but he was playing a lot with Scotty Pippen in Gary Indiana. So to connect this with tennis, which I think it's just kind of wild, it's hard to believe some of these stories. I was dealing one day it was slow, you know just a regular $25 Blackjack game and it was this guy that would always come in with like a tennis outfit right, and I know tennis outfit versus just Nike outfit.
Speaker 2:I know exactly what I know right. So we kind of became a little bit of friends, even though I was taking his money as a dealer for the most part and he would always want to make sure that I deal to him. And you know his name was John B. We're still friends today. And I asked him. I said you play tennis? He's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I compete. But I also have a business with my dad like 20 minutes from here in it's called Briaridge Country Club, close to Gary, indiana it's monster, indiana. And he says I'm there. I said, oh, you know, I played a long time and you can kind of see where this was going.
Speaker 2:Yeah we ended up. We ended up getting together on the tennis court, we ended up going to Hilton Head Islands just because we knew each other, just for me being the dealer. And he says, well, if you want to get certified ever, if you're, you know, willing to put in some hours, I got me and my dad have this whole camp going, and so now I'm around maybe 20 years old at the time- I can't even play it.
Speaker 1:You haven't, still haven't been here.
Speaker 2:No, I did not pick up a racket, so me and him go to Hilton Head Island that he was on the hardtru and he's been playing on hard courts the whole time. He's left handed, like yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah they're fast kind of annoying player gets everything back Right and we started playing a little bit and I started to feel my rhythm a little bit and we got into. We got into a match and I don't want to tell the details, just in case if he hears this podcast too much. Let's just say I was getting killed because I didn't even realize that he was left handed. I kept hitting to his forehand, thinking it's a backhand, that's how my mind was so out of tennis and he would just smoke me, I would come up to the net and all that. And I was able to adjust and, like I said, I don't want to go into details what happened later.
Speaker 2:But I kind of woke up Like that was a wake up call for me that I developed passion for the game with my friend John B from Chicago area right, and all of a sudden I said no, I'm going to start coaching.
Speaker 2:I got my certification at Hilton head.
Speaker 2:We had some he had some really good clients that would hook us up with the house there when we would be there, cause, you know, it's not like I had money to do any of this.
Speaker 2:I spent it all on you know stupid stuff as a young guy and, yeah, I got my certification and started working with him and I was doing and eight, nine, 10 hours a day like every day, and I just started coaching and then I did a lot of leagues in between down the road I started competing at the five, all level a lot, but it was so hard for my body as my now age is not 20 anymore we're looking at 27 or 30 and you're teaching eight hours a day and I would play at the five all singles and doubles and I would not be able to teach that many hours because you know you have like these annoying pains in your back or shoulders starts hurting.
Speaker 2:And you know, forearm I had some issues with my right forearm and kind of like a tennis elbow type of a deal and I just stopped competing. I just really focused on coaching because I enjoyed it and the money was good. So it was just a no brainer and I was right back into what I loved and had that bad taste in my mouth that I just almost like hated and I developed it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so interesting because you know now that I'm trying to follow your journey a little bit. It's kind of crazy when you know you mentioned that it just kind of came natural to you. But to be able to take some years off and then come back to competing at the five all level, that just kind of blows my mind of how are you able to do that. So that's, that's a that's a crazy story.
Speaker 2:So it is, and yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1:No, no, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 2:So I was going to say, because I was keeping, I kept with the same strategy big serve, big forehand, come to the net and if my timing would be a little off I would get killed. 61, 60 sometimes, but if I'm a little bit on, the next time I play the same guy I win 6161. It's over, they would not see the ball. So again, my yes, I took a lot of time off, but I did not need to be in that big of a dead grade, of a shape, nor that I ever really was. I mean, sometimes I would play a man's tournament with the same guy. He was definitely not a party animal like I am, but I would.
Speaker 2:I would go Las Vegas tournament men's open, which means you can play guys that are maybe four or you can play guys that played on tour, cause he would be 25,000 championship or something like that. Right, I played the guys that actually competed on tour and I played the guys that I knew I can win and I would come in from staying up till five in the morning that the day before and the match would be at eight or nine AM in Las Vegas and I would literally go off the poker table after parting all night and go play tennis. I mean, that's the kind of like I was always like back in the day, like it was no filter, no discipline.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I mean so after like a night like that going to play tennis, did your performance suffer or were you still able to use the same strategy? And where you went in some matches during that time, Same strategy?
Speaker 2:I would mix it up a little bit, like, for instance, I would hit the second serve as big as first serve two, sometimes because I did not want the points to even last two hits, because I would not be. I just wasn't ready to run around that much and I would still finish the game and I got a lot of wins because of that, because of I was just not afraid to go big or go home. So there was just kind of, in a way, a crazy excuse. Well, I really don't feel that great, I don't want to run around all day. So I applied this method and somehow it works. And, pulling off offsets, I lost a lot too. By the way, not because of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting because it kind of goes into the you know you're around gambling and it just allowed you to take more risk on the court and not, you know, fear of if it was going to work out or not. Because at the recreational level that I'm playing right now, you know I'm playing a lot of 30, some 35, especially like on the second server, like the second set or if they get people get down, I see a lot of people kind of pull back and they want to play safer, which you know it doesn't really work out that well. And you know I'm listening to your story and you're like, no, I just took risk and it either worked out for me or you didn't. So that's interesting that you know that kind of translated to your tennis game from doing high stakes poker and blackjack and stuff all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's just my personality. But at the same time I've been in situations in the tennis match where I would get tight, okay, and I'm like we're all human and I'm just going to tell if any of your listeners I'm sure they are playing or trying to play when you get like that, when you get tight and your racket starts to decelerate on contact versus accelerate, when you start being scared, when you, when you start getting scared, when you get tight, nothing works. You got to just let the racket accelerate and just go with it. Obviously, the technique is not there. If someone is the beginner, nothing is going to work.
Speaker 2:But if you had days where you can hit the ball with more pace let's say the intermediate level, like a three, five ish in that range three, oh, three, five for men you just got to hit the ball. You cannot decelerate because then everything goes long, it's just a push and you can't play and you become mentally weak. Okay, you know you're going to lose and that's the feeling that I've had so many times and I had to battle those demons to just hit the ball and not be afraid if it goes into the net or out a little bit, because slowly I would find that rhythm and all of a sudden the guy that for sure thought he had it, he won the first, that six two. All of a sudden we are in tiebreaker and I have a chance to win, just because I actually let loose. And I'm not saying now, you know people being crazy and hit the ball a thousand miles per hour every time, especially if the technique is not there yet you got to have some kind of fundamentals already put in place that you know you can hit a little bit more through the ball and just relax, and that's why I also like to serve and volley, because he would get you to move and not overthink stuff.
Speaker 2:You see what I mean. Even in singles, when you hit a serve and your body movement is already forward as the ball is coming at you, you don't have time to think man, I'm, I'm going to lose this match or I suck, I'm terrible. You know the world is against me. All this nonsense that goes through players minds, I don't care who you are. You have that as a tennis player because it's a very lonely, individual sport, unless, of course, you play doubles. But then sometimes it's even worse because you don't want to disappoint your partner. It's even more stress, I think, when you're on your own it's you. So I kind of embrace that and it shaped me up to be more like a risk taker in a way that makes sense for everything I do in life. There is no fear if, if, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:And would you say, go ahead.
Speaker 2:No and then no, that was it Go ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so you're coaching. You're about 27 years old, you're playing at the five oh level. You mentioned earlier that you were mostly singles. When did you start coaching doubles and double strategy? Because now, especially that I'm playing a lot, doubles is pretty much the pre pre mirror designation in rec league. Like you know, you play more doubles courts. There's a lot of leagues that are just doubles and then singles is kind of like a it's kind of backwards. I rec plays more doubles and then you know, pro players are like singles focused and doubles is kind of on the background. When did you start focusing on learning and teaching doubles, or have you always had doubles?
Speaker 2:So there was. There was the gentleman in in Las Vegas. His name is John McCauley. He is. If you ever end up in Las Vegas, if you're doing anything with tennis, you have to book a lesson with John McCauley. He is Las Vegas legend.
Speaker 2:Okay, this is the guy that I ended up in between. That's why I told you pre meeting there was so many things that happened for me to be where I'm at right now. It's kind of hard to connect, to connect dots, but there was in between Chicago and where I'm at right now, there was a stop in Las Vegas for about eight years where I lived and I did coach in a really big tennis facility called Darling Tennis Center and that's where I met John as one of the head pros and his thing is all about backspin. You know volleys and and this guy is I don't know how old he is right now he might be pushing maybe upper fifties very fast at the net A lot of spin. He was a pitcher in baseball, so very hard to return his serve. I was like man this I'm watching him against D1 college kids on a stadium court.
Speaker 2:Darling Tennis Center, by the way, has a stadium court where I guess he trains with Steffi Graf. I mean it's a beautiful facility. It's got 23 courts, two of them in the back, if anybody can remember court 22,. If you book you can see the lights of the strip, if you do like a little later lesson or hitting. It's pretty cool place and stadium court was there and I watched John play some of these UCLA, usc, west Coast really good D1 school, of course and he would win with his partner Like he would win. I said how is a 50 year old guy beating these monster looking kids like in shape? I mean the guy would wipe off his sweat and he's got like well back going on. I'm talking like these kids are like pure athletes, you know like basketball player type of almost like a wide receiver type of a body NFL college. You know what I'm talking about Very small, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:Just just amazing athletes. And this guy was winning. So I started taking notes, okay, from him. I started watching how he's coaching, let's say, women's three O's. How is he coaching men's five O's.
Speaker 2:I started to really get interested because I was all about singles doubles was never my passion, right and that really led, it started to make sense. It just clicked the stuff that he was saying. Then I did a lot of other research and I did a lot of different I guess you can call it workshops, symposiums for tennis and a lot of them. I was like, okay, this was really good, but nothing that I really not to brag about, it didn't know or it didn't resonate with me as much. But man, there was a couple other guys that I put pieces together now from my own kind of experience, common sense. Then you got John McCauley on this side and I got this guy that just did this and it just clicked, it just made sense and I said I have now a blueprint to coach doubles at the high level, intermediate level, beginner level and for people to actually win for the rest of my life. And it's not like you can hear this stuff anywhere you go. There is only a selective few that really can coach doubles and understand the strategy and what drills to do. That makes sense for the level that you're coaching, because you can't teach the same way, which a lot of coaches are doing, which took me a while to learn, but I'm understanding it. I was like this is not making sense. Why am I doing this drill with the ladies to five?
Speaker 2:So I broke it down and I put, like I said, a lot of notes and I developed passion for it because it made sense and I've seen it work. Like, for instance, I've had a team that went from Las Vegas they could not win one team when they were getting destroyed to end up the next year going undefeated in their two five and moving to three O from zero, 12 to 12, zero, because they had some pretty good players but they had no clue how to play doubles, where to be and all that, and that was kind of fun for me to watch. Then it happened again. Maybe this team I forget was they had two wins, you know 90% losses undefeated. Third one undefeated, undefeated just using the same method or making state, losing some, but making state constantly and winning and then losing at the national level close ones, or a couple of wins from Las Vegas. That was all coming in from just developing passion for doubles.
Speaker 2:I like to play it but I prefer playing singles. But when it comes to clinics coaching, I love doubles because there is so much that makes sense to me that I can offer two people, and it took a lot of years for me to put this together and a lot of trials and errors. If I would have known what I know now when I played with John B, we played our tournaments whether or not I was out till five in the morning, I don't know how many tournaments we would have won or made it to the semis or finals and made more money on those hostile tournaments on the side. If I would have known what I found out years later, I couldn't believe how dumb it would be that I didn't even see that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and coming from a singles player like yourself that already had the serving volley technique down, because obviously volleys is a big part of doubles. So you've got this doubles blueprint now, so you're coaching doubles. How did you get from the Chicago area, the Indiana area, vegas? How did you make your way to Arkansas?
Speaker 2:Man, you got some good questions. I was hoping you asked because, like I said, I can ran for days and people will be like what did he just say? Like this, he was here and then connect the dots. Like I said, it's not easy. So basically I'll put this one in about two to five minutes at the most.
Speaker 2:My wife got her MBA in Las Vegas right Executive MBA. She graduated, she got a job offering Florida which was on the Gulf Coast so there is Florida in between these two and this was in 2019, early 2019. And this was like a no-brainer job offer. It was on the Gulf Coast, right on the beach. This is the place we used to vacation. We loved it, right. And all of a sudden, this new gig that she was getting, which was an offer you can't refuse, was right there. It was like a miracle, right. So I ended up leaving Las Vegas Tennis Place there, where I had a lot of clients build up a pretty good name out there and coaching for again, I'm not very good exact time, but let's say between seven, eight years on and off. I left because of her position. I figured well, it's Florida, everybody plays tennis. Maybe I'll do it at some time, but, like I said, her job was going to be a lot more money than I was making at the time. So let's just go and see what happens, right?
Speaker 2:And then all this COVID madness happened while we were in Florida and the two offices that she was running over 220 employees everybody was laid off, including herself in early and I'm out there with kids, and the place that I was at was on the beach. I mean, it was not easy to keep up with those payments, even with a little bit of cushion for savings for several months and all that. So I got stuck there, I left my position and that whole thing with COVID happened. I'm like now what? What do I do For me? That was just another way of what's the word I'm looking for. I'm not going to say I enjoyed it, I embraced it, but I'm so used to making, I guess, crazy big decisions that I kind of liked it that it happened, because I looked at it as an opportunity for something different. Now, but what would that be Like? Where do I go? Like, where do I go? Nobody has a job. Now we sold the house in Vegas. I got kids, little kids. Where do I go? So I told her I said you got 24 hours to find a place anywhere on the map that has land.
Speaker 2:Because I thought that this whole COVID thing, what happened was and I know this is a subject that nobody wants to talk about In my opinion, based on what I live, what I've seen back in Europe, I thought it was going to be a complete government overreach. They're going to step in and do all kinds of crazy stuff and I was not wrong, whether or not what people think what they should have or not, and I'm just saying I knew it was going to be bad, whatever they end up getting involved with. And they said there is no. Every single government's temporary program ends up being permanent. So I felt like this is going to be a lot longer than let's just shut down, because Florida was shut down, a lot of people don't know.
Speaker 2:And I said I just want to get out of here and start somewhere. Maybe we can find somewhere something cheap. I said you got those two paystubs. She's looking at me like what I said show me your last paystub. I want to see the date because they're going to ask you if I find the house to show me the last checks for income, because how are you going to get? We had a great credit, the highest one, but if you got no jobs, who's going to give you credit? And this is in the middle of all that madness happening, as you can imagine.
Speaker 1:Go back to 20.
Speaker 2:So she shows me this place in. It was Texas, not much past your land, because she always wanted to have a horse down the road. But we were in position to be already searching to buy a horse. But I was just looking hey, I want some pasture land, I want some land. Let's look into some places where Texas prices were still kind of steep.
Speaker 2:I was like I don't know, maybe not. It was a lot of not pasture land, but pretty good size property way cheaper than what we were paying in Florida or Las Vegas. It still looked like I can make this happen, make this work, no matter what. You can always find some jobs here and there, some basic jobs, and make it work. But Texas fell off the map, did not work. So we started looking a little bit more. She shows me the one he was actually Wyoming. He was the one that was like 20 acres but he was no pasture land right and I said no. She said too cold. If I got animals down the road or something like, of course am I going to deal with me? I said no, forget it. So I'm thinking, yeah, this is not going to work. I don't know what to do and all of a sudden I said if you don't find, I'm buying an RV. And she says what I said I'm buying an RV. I'm not paying $5,000 a month to be here on the beach.
Speaker 2:I said I'm buying an RV and then, wherever I end up, I know I can find a tennis coaching business somewhere and get started and then I can sell it later. I just said I need something to. I'm not going to pay $5,000 a month here. I'm done. This place was not meant to be. I'm done with Florida Out, right.
Speaker 2:So once you heard the RV and she knew I was serious, she really got digging to find a place. Now, right, and here comes this land behind me on the map Sulfur Rock, arkansas. Never been to Arkansas in my life, by the way, ever. Okay, I'm as the more city guy that you can probably ever find. And I said well, what is that? I said I get how many 40 acres in the house for what I said?
Speaker 2:There is no way, it's gotta be a joke, right? So I called them up. They actually answered, because you know it was in the middle of COVID, so everybody was freaking out and nobody was buying anything. And I put a lowball offer, thinking there is no way this is going to stick, right. And the lady calls me back the next day or a few hours later, I forget. And she said, well, if you can send me a bank statement, and last two stops of your paycheck, which I had ready already. I said, okay, we send it out, she goes. Offer accepted. I said can you give me 24 hours if I can physically see the place, Because you know how it is when you see it on the pictures, it can be like you know, she said no problem but you have 24 hours.
Speaker 2:So it was basically just again, another blessing, miracle. We took the kids the next day to. I got family in-laws living Tuscaloosa, alabama. That's why if you see videos from Alabama game, it's I kind of got lucky to at least have one football team that's actually winning. So we go to Tuscaloosa drop the kids the next morning. We spent the night there.
Speaker 2:I took her alone the next morning and I got to this place, holferok, arkansas, and it was, you know, some trailer parks going through. As it was getting close, I'm like, oh, this is not gonna work, it's probably gonna be bad. And all of a sudden there is like a kind of a cool road with a lot of trees on the side, kind of like a whiny road, and there is this plant in front of me. I mean I was just. The house was built in the mid 90s, turnkey ready, nothing to it. Right now we're remodeling certain things the way we like it, but it was turnkey ready, you know nothing, like I said to do it, but it had a hops. It's like this for the price that we paid was four times less than what we used to own, with 40 more acres. I mean, I understand in Arkansas, not Las Vegas, but I'm like that's a no brainer, right?
Speaker 2:So I called the lady right? Well, I didn't call her, she was right here. I love the place. I said we're good, where do I sign? That was. It came back, got the U-hole truck and I moved. It took about six months to get things rolling. We did not have any jobs and she found a little bit of some little work online, working from home, and I didn't have anything with tennis. I didn't even think people played tennis in Arkansas.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's interesting because you know you said you had never come to Arkansas and honestly, you know, not really knowing your backstory, I didn't know anything about the tennis community before I started playing, but the way that you were received in Jonesboro I just assumed you'd been here for a long time. Now I hear your story and you're like no, I've only been here about three years, so that was new to me, hearing that. So that's interesting. But a lot of people that have never been to Arkansas just have this perception that it's. You know, we walk around barefoot, there's nothing there, there's nothing to do. Why would you ever want to live in Arkansas? And then you come and then you see all the beauty and all the hiking trails and things that you can do and people are like, oh, this would be a you know, a nice place to be. So it's funny seeing how you've never really been a country guy and now you ended up on 40 acres in Arkansas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just really like right now I would have to say never staying never. But I am in love with the state of Arkansas, like I met so many great people like yourself, your brother and so many other people in Jonesboro through Pat Malone, which I'll touch up in a second with how that whole meetup happened, with everything that, how I actually started coaching here. I'll close off with that on the whole path of how I ended up here, cause now it just kind of ties down to how I ended up where I ended up, right, and it's just, it's been awesome to meet all those people and, yeah, it's only been three years. So I went to community center in Batesville, which is the closest bigger town where I live, about 10, 15 minutes from Sulphur Rocks, so very close. Batesville's got about 10,000 people, not nothing big but nonetheless way bigger than the little town that we're in with 400 people right. And I got there and I wanted to do something with tennis to the community center, cause they got two courts. They're pretty bad, they're beat up, but they got two courts, you know, and I tried a little bit of something and I just really never took off.
Speaker 2:And then the director of the community center, jeff. He said you know I got this guy, pat Malone, you can give him a call. He's doing some stuff here with tennis and he knows a lot of people. You need to probably give him a call. That's up to you. I know you probably want to do your own thing, but to get started it would be really good to reach out to him.
Speaker 2:And I did and Pat, immediately when he stole my resume, invited me to Johnsboro. We met in the office and I started just helping out with some camps and all that and then about a year and a half two years, after about a year and a half, pat was already mentioning he's trying to go somewhere else. I had a lot of people that started working with me and he had no issues with me out there or the city that I'm aware of and he says you can just take over because I have other plans and all that. So Pat is the one that introduced me to all those people and he ended up leaving and I took over the contract the contract basically still working on some stuff with the contract with Earl Bell in Johnsboro and Pat decided to go on with next endeavors.
Speaker 2:I've seen on your channel. You interviewed him. He's obviously very energetic guy. Probably very interesting story too, like mine, with his Marine background and how intense he is and all that. It was just incredible to how that worked out on accident again with him and where we are today.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely. Yeah, like you said, I interviewed Pat and that was kind of when I just started getting into my tennis journey and it's just a great way to be able to meet people and connect with people. So that's a really interesting story about how you get all the way from Europe to Vegas to Chicago, indiana, some Alabama in there, and then make your way down to the natural state. So what are three things, marco, that pieces of advice that you would give to someone that's never played tennis but wants to?
Speaker 2:Well, number one there is so many things that I can add on this, but I'll try to stick with three. Go in with open mind when you're playing tennis, meaning don't expect immediately to play at pro level. Understand that you got to learn to deal with adversity because it is, as you know, a very mental, grueling sport, not just physical, but physical part comes a little later as you get better, because you got to set up more on a tougher balls that are coming. So be open minded to be ready to deal with adversity and this will help you with everything else you do in life. Number two do not jump into leagues immediately if you do not already have passion for the game, or even if you do take your time.
Speaker 2:Why am I saying this, which a lot of tennis clubs will probably say well, this guy's crazy. Because that's what brings the most money for the tennis clubs and all that because people are more kind of like, not stuck, but they are very connected with the club. If that happens, it's because of a lot of bad sportsmanship out there and they can make you not love the game. So don't rush into leagues right away. Learn how to keep track of the score and all that what the league is all about. But I don't want you to go in and start hating it because of some idiot that's calling every ball out and making fun of you the way you hit the ball, or whatever the reason you may be. I'm sure you have a lot of experiences from that. It can be a little rough if you have a bad captain, that there is no camaraderie in the team. So go in open-minded, a minded, knowing you're gonna have to deal with some adversity. Do not jump into leagues too quickly.
Speaker 2:And number three, just be ready to work. Go in knowing that this, when you develop passion for tennis, it is going to be nonstop in your head because you know certain shots you could have done better and that's what's gonna keep you driving. With everything else you do in life, whether it's business, whether it's relationship, it's going to make you. It's a mindset that you shape through tennis. And if they say there is a saying, if you wanna learn something about someone like their character, put them in the game of tennis for 10 minutes or golf and you learn everything you have to learn about this person. Okay, to actual game, cause you know who is the cheater, you know who is very good dealing with adversity. When you're losing, can you come back? Who is the fighter, who is not, who is very competitive? That's what I mean, and that's what comes down from picking up that golf club and going on the course or in the tennis game.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. That's some good pieces of advice and those are, one thing, things that I've been kind of racking my brain about. So I wanted to ask you this I asked Pat when I interviewed him why do you think that there is such a great imbalance for the number of women players versus men players at the beginner levels, and what are some things that we can do to get more beginner guys? And because right now, looking ahead to spring league, it doesn't even look like there's gonna be a two, five men's division at all. And one thing that I've been just kind of thinking about is how can we get more guys in the sport to kind of grow it in the area?
Speaker 2:Well, the way I've noticed it with men, it comes down to men want to be next Rafael Nadal tomorrow. Okay, they come in out there, especially if you're an athlete. You play basketball like yourself, like your brother. You guys are really in great shape. You got a lot of guys that I've seen on the tennis course that would lift weights or being really good shape or, like I said, they play. I had a couple of guys that they were running backs in college football okay, they can get to every ball.
Speaker 2:They can't deal with the fact that they cannot really play well for a while because it's so much technique involved to learn. So what they want is men leave the sport. They do not wanna play because they want to be a next Nadal overnight. They come in with that mindset. They wanna hit the ball as hard as they can, especially in doubles. They gonna, on a return of serve, they gonna hit as hard as they can right away to try to beat the guy at the net down the line, playing the lowest percentage shot every single time. I'm gonna repeat that again playing the lowest percentage shot, every single shot and trying to win when the level is not there yet.
Speaker 2:While women what I've noticed are more like listen, I'm getting a great workout, I'm getting competitive, even though maybe I didn't even play sports before, and this is all of a sudden like I'm able to wow, this is pretty good. They got all their Apple watches. Look how many steps they did. Okay, well, I lost, but they find it in a completely different way, as what I've noticed, men do. That's why, including in Las Vegas, where you have tennis club after tennis club and I was in a huge facility, it was more women playing and guys would come and go and they would just well, I don't like this coach.
Speaker 2:I don't like the way he feeds the ball. I like this. I like this drill better. I don't like that drill. Well, I want to go with this guy. I mean, it's constantly, you know, a battle there that eventually leads to I'm just going to do my own thing or not even play on a league, and I'm just going to play some open tournaments and call it a day. That's what I've noticed from 25 something years now of experience in the tennis community. You can call it tennis community.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. So I do want to double back on your time in Arkansas. So you know you moved here about three years ago. You mentioned your wife having aspirations on getting a horse one day. Do you have animals on your farm or like? What is your plan and what are you doing with your land right now?
Speaker 2:Well, when we got here, we have a lot of hunting property in the back and on the sides. We mean, like you know, woods basically, but there is about 10 to 12 acres. That's like past your land. So we were able to. When the first job came along you know, just a basic little job online we're like, okay, we're going to get that horse now because we have so much grass, instead of moving it, let's just get that horse out there and get started. And it was a pretty cheap horse. She was, unfortunately, not well taken care of and, man, we got that horse up to go pretty quickly. I mean, she's just a beautiful. I mean she's huge. I mean the muscles are just stacked on, just like watching Shannon sharp, you know like. I mean every single muscle. Is it kind of like you took it and you put it right there? That looks good? No, this one looks better. Like I mean it is just a just a gorgeous animal. Now, right.
Speaker 2:So when that happened, I wanted to have our own food and I was really not sure how to do that with the whole thing with the cattle, because I have no experience. So this probably hilarious story, I think. So what do I do? So we're looking on Facebook like how do I buy the cow? I don't know. You know we got this little electric fence. You know I think I could put on. We had no fencing either. It was just kind of open, you know, with a little bit from the neighbor, some barbed wire, but that's about it. And this guy from Scranton, arkansas I did not understand the word this guy was saying and I know he did not understand me. So you got this, we call it what it is this hillbilly guy, old man, trying to talk to European guy in Arkansas to buy some cows. I mean, I just it was just hysterical to try to talk to him, but somehow we got to understand each other that I needed two cows, right? He says, okay, well, I got the driver. We agreed on the price. We're out there putting the electric fence around. I said, okay, well, I'll get started with that and see where he goes. I just want to make sure I have food for my own family and to use that land for something right.
Speaker 2:And again, going back to the whole COVID thing, I thought that the lockdowns would last a lot longer. The shortages of food, with a lot of wars globally, as I'm sure you're aware of with the supply chain issues, and I already went through all that mess and I was like, just to make sure, with little kids, I want to have my own food. I just don't trust anyone in government. By the way, there is not one person in the office that I trust Left right, black, white, I don't give a shit. I don't trust any of them. Okay, like, I just do not, to put that out there. So I said I want to have my own food because I don't trust people in charge to do anything right, and that's kind of how it happens.
Speaker 2:So he got me nine cows that I can pick two out of the nine that I like. I'm like man, what a guy. This is great. So this old man comes in, he's probably 90. Like I'm not over exaggerating and he's got, of course you know he has 2,500 pickup truck and he's got a trailer for a cows. I'm like, okay, I want number 22 and 23.
Speaker 2:I was thinking just I want to get the cow that doesn't have eyes like this or snotty nose or something. I want to look the one kind of. That's all I know. Right, and they were all young, maybe six to eight months. So, heifers, and I tell the driver, he says, well, he goes, well, go get him. I said, go get him. What? How am I going to get him? And I had one of the guys here, veterans, that worked on the fence to help out with electric fence and he played football, you know, at really high level offensive lines, a really strong Arkansas man, right, and he's out there. Well, we can just grab him by the tail and pull him out. I said what I thought he was joking, right. So he goes in there. And you know, and this guy is like I said, he's, he's a bull man and he goes in there and he tries to grab that tail a little bit and, man, these cows just stick their head. You know, herd mentality inside.
Speaker 2:So, you know they don't want to come out. So I come up to the driver and I said listen, man, I can't get the two I want. I don't know what you want me to do. You got to help me out, I you know. He says there's not nothing I can do. I'm 90 years old. He says you can call whatever the guy is in Scranton and figure it out. So I called him up and he says well, yeah, the man is very old. If you can't get him out, I don't know what to tell you. I said oh, you want me to buy all nine? That's where the game is Like. I don't know right, yeah.
Speaker 2:I said well, I guess I'll buy all nine. Since you drove all the way from basically close to Fayetteville, I said I'll buy all nine, but this is the, this is what I'll pay you for. And he did agree. He took a while for him to agree, but I because then we just hit from one side of the trailer and they all came out together and then I kind of looked around and I said, now what? Now I got nine cows.
Speaker 2:I wanted two and it turned into a farm to table nationwide beef business because I had so many cows that a lot of family friends when they found out they started buying from us because they would come over, they would have steaks here or whatever hamburgers. They're like man, this is the most delicious meat I've ever had. So they started ordering like 50 pounds, a hundred pound orders. Then I started just they're telling their friends, then their friends telling other friends. All of a sudden those were sold within no time. I ended up selling, like in two years, over 40 head of cattle in just a matter of two years and now has turned into a, like I said, a nationwide farm to table business. And that's how the story happened. It was no, but the thing is, I developed passion for it, you see, like that was one of those deals that I immediately.
Speaker 2:I was really interested. That's why I was like no, this is. I love the fact to see the cow upfront and they just graze, or the horse. I just think it's beautiful and they take care of themselves. You just got to make sure you got a good fence. There are some issues, you know. You got to get them sometimes and all that gets really cold, old, maybe two weeks out of the winter in here in Sulphur rocks. So I got to, you know, break the water. So it's really.
Speaker 2:It's not like you have dogs right which I always not always, but I had a dog too that they're more like. They're like your kid, while these animals like this are especially cattle or chickens, which we have chickens do you? They're out there doing their own thing, like you don't even have to look. You just got to make sure they got water, that's it. You just have to find this well that they can just go in, so you don't even. It's just, it was so easy and I developed. And then for auctions, I didn't have to deal with with the guy and Scranton every time. There's actually an auction here, about 10 minutes from here, and it reminded me of Las Vegas, playing poker tournaments and all that or stock market. I did a lot of that stuff to make deals and all that. I just love that whole aspect of it and I know a lot of people.
Speaker 2:It's not for everyone because you know those cows are not pets, that's just the way it is. You don't want to get emotionally attached to them, it's the way it is. I mean it is what it is, their food, and you go out to the you know local whatever McDonald's. That's what it is. I mean, that's just the fact of life. So I tried to kind of like the first couple of cows I'm not going to lie, that was not easy when you had to take them in to the processor, but once you kind of understand that's just how it goes. It's turned into, like I said, passion and they have really good life here because we have, I think, amazing property for them, a lot of grass, they're well taken care of and we keep them for several years and they just go. That's just how it goes. And now actually we have, like we do like a 17 pound, almost 20 pound brisket right Giveaway for Christmas For people. I can even give you that link if people want to. Just.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely we want that and we're going to do like a live drawing for it. We're going to do it on the 20th of December because we had one of the bulls. It was a huge brisket right and so we're doing that. Sometimes we do giveaways like this and it just developed into passion, just like tennis, and there is not many things I know how to do, like I said, but when I do develop that passion for something and that would be the biggest take from today's interview for you, for any of your listeners you know sky is the limit what you can accomplish with your podcast or whatever, when you have passion and when you want to put hard work, because people know when you try to cut corners and they can sense you're just doing it because you're doing it, yeah, because you know.
Speaker 2:They know people are not dumb. Okay, and that's where I've noticed a lot of people are trying to cut corners so they can make it easier for themselves and make more money and whatnot and not really take care of people, and this is where they lose on opportunities and they don't have a repeat business or a lot of subs for your podcast that actually keep them and getting more people on them versus like no, this guy's just, you know whatever. It sounded good at the beginning, but now we're just going to cut you out, tevin or Marco, right?
Speaker 2:So it's not easy to keep that passion all the time. So either you have it or you don't. You can't trick anyone, because he's going to put your guard down and they'll know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely that's. That's so interesting, that how you do the I think, the best story, one of the best, because you had a lot today the cow story. That's so interesting how you just kind of.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to buy all the cows. I'm like that's just so such a crazy story and you're right. And when we were talking Tuesday at the lesson, you're like, yeah, people don't believe all the things that I have to say or you know all your stories and stuff, but I definitely think it's something that needs to be told because I mean, you, you're well traveled and well rounded as far as you know from the. You know you said farm the table, like I'm. I'm interested in some of that meat now because that's the one thing that we love at eating is is steak, and I love seeing your pictures online of the rib eyes and things that you're cooking. And I actually worked at a steakhouse for seven years, so that's where my passion for cooking steaks and eating steaks and stuff comes from, cause you know before that I was kind of like a eat my steak, well done, kind of person, and then I just got to experience all these different flavors, working in that restaurant environment and in that kitchen and things like that.
Speaker 2:So so you know, good steak is what you're telling me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:What good steak is. Yeah, yeah, that was. That was my biggest. I didn't want to do this podcast for ever, so I'll finish off. Yeah, I just man, when I picked up that first meat and I went in my freezer and I said you know what? I'm going to try hamburger first. Right, see what that tastes like, it was the most like. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:It was such an experience to know like this animal I know again, I know a lot of people may get offended by all this. There's a lot of vegans out there and all that, and I get all that. But for me to know where that animal was eating and how she was taken or whatever fear he was taking care of, and I know what they ate. And then I just there was something like, especially with chickens too. Are we at Turkey's chickens? I learned how to process my own chickens, believe it or not? That's another part that not many people can do. I understand that, but I, just, like I said, I just develop passion for enjoying the nature and and and and and living off of that, to, to, to even hunt your own food and prepare it and understand this is, this is what it is. People just don't want to hear the fact that when you go to, let's say, chick-fil-a, that chicken had to go through a process in order to get to your plate.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I want to make sure I teach my kids all that so they understand. You know how it is and I hope I don't offend other people out there, whatever their choice of food is.
Speaker 1:And whatever.
Speaker 2:So this is how I see it and this is what I do, and I don't change a planning that anytime soon.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely. And then if you look at just in other parts of like in nature and stuff, it's, it's just the you know, it's the food chain. You know, naturally in nature other animals eat other animals, you know. So it's just, I think it's just a natural thing to do. But you know, obviously you know we're humans and we can live our lives how we want to live our lives. So you know, whatever you want to do. It might be different for me, but you know I'm kind of in the same boat as you. So I guess the last thing I'll ask you is what is your favorite cut of steak?
Speaker 2:I mean I, I'm going to say the most underrated. I love tenderloin fillets, my favorite.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's kind of like to me. That was an easy decision. I just love, love tenderloin fillet, but the most underrated cut and the cheapest one out of the states steak is sirloin steak. Yeah, I, I just I just like I said, it's definitely something that I did not know how good sirloin actually is. He was always ribeye ribeye Everybody's talking about ribeyes in Porter house, of course but I just really think my favorite is you can put a mix between tenderloin fillet and sirloin would be my underrated by far sirloin steak. But the grass fed and finished and young, not old meat. You know it's gotta be young, so it's. It's just there is a more to it, like under 30 months. That's kind of what I've noticed. Once you get into this older house, it just it gets a lot more fat which can taste sometimes a lot better, and you're eating a lot of fats the bad fats, you know. So I really enjoy sirloin. Sirloin would be the most underrated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and it's interesting because a destiny's mother has a, a farm so we get sometimes we get cows from her and she has like a, a lot of horses, like she has an equestrian therapy business where she works with kids and stuff and they take them on rides and things like that. So that was kind of my first introduction to kind of the farm horse life. So it's it's been interesting to hear how you tie in being from Europe to now you're living in the country, in Arkansas, and you know you've had this whole city life that you experienced too. So I mean, you pretty much live three different lives in the course of of your to where you are now. So it's been really interesting to hear your, your story and do you have anything that you want to let the listeners know before we conclude the interview?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, of course I am the European hillbilly tennis player, cowboy. Yes, I'll finish off with that, so people can take that how they want, but that's that's the mix I got here.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well, mark, I appreciate you taking the time on this Saturday to talk to us and let us know a little bit about your story. We'll put the links where you can connect Marco and we'll put the links to where we can enter for that drawing, for that, for that brisket Cause. That's something I'm excited about December 20th.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll. I'll send it to you when we're done. Do I just send you on your phone like a regular yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Just send it to me on my phone and I'll put it on the show notes to where anyone that's listening can enter the drawing if they would like. So, but like I said, marco, it's been a pleasure. I appreciate you being on the show.
Speaker 2:Oh, mine too. Pleasure is all mine. I'll see you later, tevin. Say hi to everybody, to your family, and I'll see you back on the tennis court.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Well, guys, this has been another episode of the clever angle podcast. Like I said, thanks Marco for for being with us and until next time.
Speaker 2:All right, take care.
Speaker 1:Take care, yep.
Speaker 2:Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.
