Clever Angle
Helping people find work that they love through the stories of others. Join host Tevin McGee as he interviews a guest from a different field of work every week to give the listeners a better understanding of what jobs there are in the market and the roadmap of how to get there. Come along on this journey as he searches for the answer to the question of is college in 2024 overrated? With the boom of online learning and swelling nationwide student loan debt Tevin is on a quest to better inform his audience of which career paths NEED to go to college and which paths may have a different way of achieving your goal. So if you are undecided on your future career or curious about a certain field and want to hear from people that are in the trenches of that career already then this podcast is for you.
Clever Angle
#43 Transitioning from Corporate to Freelance Writing: A Conversation with Alannah Ferris
Ever wondered what it takes to transition from a corporate career to the world of freelance writing? With Alannah Ferris, a Nashville-based writer, we delve deep into this very journey. Elena brings a wealth of experience from her unique background in finance and logistics and shares valuable insights into the realities of remote work, the nuances of SEO in digital marketing, and the art of self-management.
Weaving through her career shift story, Alannah discusses the nuts and bolts of content writing, copywriting, and effective time management for freelancers. Together, we tackle the infamous writer's block, offering tips and strategies to keep your creativity well-fed. The conversation takes an interesting turn towards the power of storytelling in marketing, discussing the hero's journey structure in crafting compelling copy that resonates with customers.
But the world of freelance writing isn't without its challenges. As we navigate the hurdles, Alannah shares the importance of choosing a niche, building a portfolio, and, most importantly, understanding the value of your work. She talks about grappling with imposter syndrome, the importance of work-life balance, and the four pillars of a good career. Alannah's candid sharing of her personal journey and future goals is nothing short of inspiring. If you're a budding writer or a seasoned pro looking for a fresh perspective, this episode is a gold mine of practical advice, inspiring discussions, and empowering conversations that will leave you with a renewed understanding of the freelance writing landscape.
Alannah’s freelance website!
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Welcome back to another episode of the Clever Angle Podcast, episode 43, and I'm here today with Elena Ferris. She is a freelance writer that works remote, and thank you for joining me today, elena.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I was doing some deep diving into your website. I was reading some of your blogs yesterday and I just want to say that you write some compelling pieces on there. You have a very unique writing, so Thank you, I really appreciate that. Can you just tell the audience a little bit about your job title, where you're from, just a little elevator pitch to kind of get us introduced to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. I am a Nashville based freelance writer. I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago and my background was originally actually in finance and logistics, but today I write professionally for companies in the lifestyle space, and just through writing I help them build rapport with their customers and I help them increase their visibility online.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's awesome. So can you just tell me a little bit like what was it like growing up in Chicago? What's your family like, just a little bit about your childhood and you growing up?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was good, it was cold. I live in Nashville here now, so that's the weather's a lot better down here, but it was really good. Growing up I'm super fortunate to have a great family. I always I tell people I grew up in a very science oriented family. So my dad is a zookeeper, he's a background in biology, I have siblings with backgrounds in physics and wildlife, ecology and all sorts of scientist cousins and that kind of a thing. So that was a big influence growing up. But yeah, just, I have a lot of super interesting people in my family.
Speaker 1:So what was your favorite part about growing up in Chicago? Did you go to any Cubs games or any Bears games or anything like that?
Speaker 2:No, I'll be honest, I'm not a huge sports person. I'm a Cubs and a Bears fan, just by Association and geography. So I think that's great. But we were I would say we were a museum family, so we like to go to all the museums downtown, like the Field Museum, the Science and Industry Museum, the Shed Aquarium, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, and I'm from Arkansas originally, but I'm a Detroit Lions fan, so I'm familiar with the Bears organization. We play you guys twice a year, and I just came back from New Orleans when I was watching the Lions play, so me and my wife were talking about taking a trip to see another Lions game, and Chicago came up on the list. So if you have recommendations for things to do in Chicago, feel free to pass those along.
Speaker 2:Oh, I would be happy to.
Speaker 1:I definitely have a lot so growing up in a science-based family physics, zoo keeping, that sort of thing. Where did writing come into that?
Speaker 2:You know that's a great question. It did not come into the picture until like very recently, like maybe four years ago. So my original path in school was I was super interested in biology. That was like my science of choice. And then I went to college for a couple of years and that was my major. So that's where I started. That's where I wanted to go. I wanted to do something in conservation and then just eventually, after a couple of years, decided that's actually wasn't what I wanted to do. So I totally switched gears, started working in the corporate world just had a lot of different jobs, and I found writing along the way.
Speaker 1:So when you say you worked in the corporate space, what kind of jobs did you have? Could you dig a little deeper on some of the previous jobs that you've had?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. My first big girl job after I left college was I started working for a logistics company I would. I think my title was. I was a billing coordinator, so I worked a little bit in finance and that kind of a thing in an office with adults. So that was a good experience and I just I followed that path for a few years. At one of the latter that I was climbing. So I was a billing coordinator. The company that I was working for at the time it was pretty small so it got bought out a couple of years into doing that and then I was promoted to a higher billing position and then I actually left Illinois and decided to move to Virginia and in Virginia I got a job as a project manager for a direct mail company.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you said that. How long ago was that job when you were in Virginia?
Speaker 2:That was in 2020.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you, how long were you in Virginia and how long have you been in Nashville?
Speaker 2:So I was in Virginia for two years, from August 2020 to December of 2022. And I just moved to Nashville this past January, so this was my first year here.
Speaker 1:I got you. So you said that biology was kind of your signs of Troy, going along with some of the things that were in your family already. What was it that kind of made you decide to switch to something else?
Speaker 2:I think I had just gotten to well okay. So I think it. I think a big part of it was I was always someone who was super excited about college, like from when I was little and as I was growing up, I just wanted to go right through high school, like I was just ready to go to college. I just I thought it would be the best thing ever, and so when I got there, I think my expectations were just a little bit too high. So when I got there I was a little bit underwhelmed.
Speaker 2:I also remember struggling quite a bit with the schoolwork. Any STEM major is pretty tough, so that was a hard transition. But I think I also just realized, like a couple of years into it, it just wasn't what I wanted to do long term. I didn't. I knew I wanted to go into conservation, but conservation isn't really a career, so I probably could have gone that route and found something that I wanted to do. But I just realized after two years, like I'm not exactly sure what I want to do and I don't want to keep spending money if I don't know what I'm trying to accomplish. So I just want to step back, take five and reorient it. That's, that's what I did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I have a kind of a similar college experience. What was the reaction to your parents when you decided that you were no longer going to pursue school?
Speaker 2:Oh, they were super supportive. I have I really have just a great wonderful family. My, my parents' thing was they wanted all of their kids to try college at least for a year, and then After that year, if they wanted to come home and stay at home and find a job or whatever they wanted to do, they just wanted all their kids to have the college experience for at least a little while. So two of my siblings ended up going to college and graduating and my younger sister she actually she tried college, figured out it wasn't for her, so me and her both kind of decided to take different paths, which I think was totally fine and yeah, they were super supportive about it.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, and my parents have always been supportive as well. Me, I've got a twin brother, and so we were the first two people in our family to graduate college, so it was just a thing that they all pushed us towards.
Speaker 1:They were like when they were growing up, getting a college degree was the main thing. Hey, get a college degree, you'll get a good job and it'll lead to better opportunities. So I was in the same boat where I didn't really know what I wanted to do and still figuring that out. But I honestly knew, probably a little earlier than two years, that I didn't want to continue, just because of the same thing that you're saying, like the money aspect. But I did end it up finishing it and I don't regret it. Oh, college was a great experience and I learned a lot of things. But I think if I could do it differently and not feel it almost like a unspoken pressure from my parents, I might have done something differently. It's nice to hear that your parents were supportive of you in that way and I'm not saying mine weren't, it's just it came from a generation where that was the thing to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally get that. That's the case for a lot of people, even if there's not direct pressure from the parent to the family. Sometimes, if you have older siblings, that kind of set a precedent for you, like you feel like you have to follow in their footsteps, or there's just this kind of unspoken expectation. So I totally get what you mean Absolutely.
Speaker 1:You said you covered writing on the way. Can you tell us a little bit about your discovery period there and what was like some of the first things you started writing about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was Connie. Okay, so growing up, so I said in college, like biology and the sciences, even though I thought it was interesting, it was really difficult. Language arts, writing and reading is something that actually always came super easy to me, but I also never really thought twice about it. So growing up in high school I was in the honors English and always got A's. I never really had to try, it was just something I naturally excelled at. Same thing in college so I've always written for like on the side, like I would do journaling. Sometimes I would just write for fun, nothing super elaborate. So it's just something I knew I liked it and I knew I was pretty good at it.
Speaker 2:So eventually, so after I had this job in Virginia, they had this the company laid off I think like 30 or 40% of the company. Within a few months of me being there they laid off a huge portion of people and that kind of gave me another opportunity to take a step back and figure out okay, do I want to keep working in an office for the rest of my life or do I maybe want to take a different direction? So that was a really intense soul searching period for me and trying to figure out what I wanted to do. Did I want to go back to school? Did I want to explore other careers? And the reason I found out about like writing, or what I've reconnected with it and rediscovered it, was because I had someone at my office who knew that I liked to write and he, like offered me money to write a school paper for him. And so I was like, oh yeah, sure, that's so funny.
Speaker 2:I didn't end up doing it, but I gave me the idea of, hey, people will pay you to write stuff for them. So I was like that's really interesting. So I that's not where I started. I looked to like, oh, like there's all these websites where you can write people's school papers for them and they'll pay you. And then that kind of led to me finding out oh, people actually write for companies they write for like. You didn't just have to be an author to be a writer for a living. There were so many other ways that you could monetize your writing skills and you can actually make a really viable career off of it. So it just led me down that rabbit hole and that's how I got there.
Speaker 1:Did you ever have or do you ever see yourself writing a book in the future?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think before I would have said no, but in more recent years I think it's possible. I know it's a huge thing it takes, it's a lot of work and for some authors it's very little payoff because you know there's this whole other marketing portion and you know most authors don't make that much money from writing a book. But I've also just learned so much more about the industry than I've knew before, so I think at this point I would definitely consider it in the future.
Speaker 1:Do you think that reading has helped you become a better writer, or do you read often at all?
Speaker 2:Yes, I definitely read a lot. I think reading is a huge part of being a writer. I think, no matter what you're writing, you should continue to read. It expands your vocabulary. Like it's just there's something that happens in your brain when you're reading something and you remember people's examples and anecdotes and turn of phrases and it stays like in your subconscious and then you can create that and make it your own. So the more you read, the better of a writer you become. I definitely think that's the case.
Speaker 1:So, yes, yeah, I definitely see some parallels in that I know when I'm getting ready to do a podcast, I will listen to different styles of podcasts and I have a wide variety of interests. I'll listen to modern wisdom and then I'll listen to something about movies or TV shows or something, and then I'll listen to whatever else that's in my body crime junkie, just to see, okay, this is how this person started their episode, this is how what I could do, and then kind of that's interesting, that writing and read and hand in hand in that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally. I love modern wisdom too. By the way, I'm a big fan, so I think he's such a great podcaster and actually, from listening to I've been listening to him for a few years and after listening to a couple of your podcasts, you guys remind me of each other a little bit in the way that I feel like you're really good at holding space for people to talk and directing a conversation. But, yeah, I love modern wisdom.
Speaker 1:That is a huge compliment. So I appreciate that, because I honestly just found out about modern wisdom, maybe like a month ago, so I just started listening to them. I came across them on YouTube. So love Chris, love the content that he's putting out, so I appreciate that. What are some other podcasts that you listen to?
Speaker 2:Oh man, that's really. That's the big one. I like modern wisdom a lot. I was just looking at this because I just did my Spotify wrapped. I listen to Joe Rogan. Sometimes it just depends on the guest that he has. I'm trying to find more good podcasts, so if you have any recommendations, let me know.
Speaker 1:I'll get a list together and I'll get you some good shows to listen to for sure.
Speaker 2:Have you ever been?
Speaker 1:a podcast guest before.
Speaker 2:No, this is my first time Awesome.
Speaker 1:I'm glad I could be your podcast that you were on. Let's talk a little bit more about writing. So you found this thing that you figured out that you could kind of monetize in a way, and he sparked the idea from the guy that you I guess you were one of your friends that wanted you to write the paper. What was the next step after that?
Speaker 2:The next step was to just honestly, I think I I didn't even Google anything. I think I started by looking on Instagram, so I had just typed in like freelance writer and then I came across some. It was a woman by the name. Her name is Colleen Welsh. I don't think she's a freelance writer anymore, but she basically had this whole account teaching people how to become a freelance writer. So I started following her content and watching her videos. She had a lot of free, just that information. That was really valuable. I ended up buying a course from her that she had done. It was a really well done course that kind of showed you holistically, like not just how do you write for somebody, but how do you run a business in terms of taxes and how do you set your rates, and it was super comprehensive and that was really helpful. So I learned a lot from her. I learned from some other people too, but I was really just finding people who were doing what I wanted to do and then just copying them. Basically.
Speaker 1:Have you ever heard of the proximity principle?
Speaker 2:No, I haven't.
Speaker 1:Basically, I was listening to Dave Ramsey on YouTube and they had his name escapes me, but I'll put it in the show notes once we get done. So he was in there talking about his book and his podcast was called the proximity principle and it was basically the gist of it is, you get around people that are doing what you want to do, or surround yourself with the information of things that you want to do, and then, just being in proximity of people, you will start to become more like them and just set yourself on the course. So it kind of sounds like that's what you did. You found people that were doing what you wanted to do and immersed yourself in it and just just took the bull by the horns and just just did it.
Speaker 1:So that's really interesting, because I also took a course, or in the middle of taking a podcast and course, because and I was just like man I'm going to, Pat Flynn is the guy that's doing the course and I was just like I'm just going to do follow the steps and see if this framework will legitimately work. So that's cool that you um or did a similar thing to that. So when did you start making money to where you were like okay, I could potentially do this full time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the first time I ever made money from my writing, I had found a client, a new client, basically. So I was using a freelancing platform called Upwork you might be familiar with it. So I found my first gig on there and I think it was not very much money, but I wrote an article about trucking and logistics because I kind of what my background was in. So I was like sure, I know about this. And I wrote an article and I made $15 off of it and that was like wow, I just traded my services for money. This is crazy. So that was really all it took for me to be like okay, like this is possible. Obviously, I'm not going to charge $15 for an 800 word article in the future, but it really showed me like okay, this is possible, this could turn into something. Um, and yeah, that was the beginning.
Speaker 1:I got you, so you got that taste of man. I can make this into something more. How long after that would you say that you went full time?
Speaker 2:Um, okay, that was in 2021, and then I went full time um at the in January of 2022. So I did it on the side of my job for a while. There was this whole other thing where, after I got laid off, I ended up working the service industry and that gave me a lot of flexibility. So I started freelancing on the side and then I went full time in January of 2022.
Speaker 1:So when you said service industry, so were you like a bartender server host Cause I yeah, yeah, I was a server.
Speaker 2:So I worked at this really cute little breakfast place in Lynchburg, virginia, and I started as a host, then became a server, then I actually managed there until I left, so that's what I was doing primarily. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:I'm in sales now but prior to that I worked as a host server bartender manager at a steakhouse here in Arkansas and me and my twin brother actually have a bartending business that we still do on the sides for, like private events and weddings, a twin and tonic.
Speaker 2:So we do that Nice.
Speaker 1:So I definitely think that if people out there have never worked in the service industry and you have that period, you need a job. I think that everybody should have to do that, because it teaches you a lot of lessons, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it definitely does, I totally agree.
Speaker 1:All right. So you said you were managing at the restaurant. Now you're full time. Can you just explain to us just what a normal day looks like for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, so I will say this too. So I was full time in 2022. This year, I work a couple of nights at a restaurant here in town, just to give me a little bit. So something I learned last year was how important it is to have the posture to be able to say no to projects that you don't want to work with or clients you don't want to work with. So I decided after I moved to Nashville that I wanted to have just a little something on the side for right now, so that I could be a little bit pickier about the projects I take on. So I actually I'm a waitress at actually a steakhouse as well just a couple of nights a week over here too, for the time being. And then what was the other part of your question I forgot?
Speaker 1:No, I was just asking what does a typical day look like for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so a typical day is I. What's really great is I don't set an alarm kind of wake up whenever. I'm usually pretty early, but maybe not quite as early as I did when I was working in a corporate job, so I can take my time in the morning. So I'll get up, have a cup of coffee, take my time to get started. A lot of times I don't actually start work until 10 am, which is really nice, and then yeah, and then I'll just. I'll usually make to-do lists to the beginning of my day, figure out what I need to get done, figure out where my deadlines are for the week and in. Every day can look a little bit different, but I usually work from 10 to about 4 or 5 pm, depending on the day and depending on the workload. So yeah.
Speaker 1:How many projects are you currently working on right now?
Speaker 2:So right now is light. I have I really just have two main ongoing projects. I have some stuff lined up for January, so I anticipate things getting pretty busy at the beginning of next year. It's usually a busy season, but right now it's not too bad, but not a nice, because the holidays are coming up, so I have a little bit more flexibility in my schedule.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you said you always wanted to have something on the side that could give you that freedom to not take on projects that you're not passionate about. Has there ever been a time that you've written about something that you necessarily didn't want to take on?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely I've worked with clients who, especially towards the beginning, where I feel like I just it's not that I had anything against their content or what they were doing, but I just didn't exactly align with the things that they were talking about. And obviously my very first client, that trucking company. I'm not really passionate about trucks so I had to figure out what I wanted my niche to be in basically. But both of the clients that I work with right now I really enjoy working with them. I think the work they do is super fascinating and important. So it feels good to be aligned with them and get excited about helping them grow their business and really help them help other people too.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. Like I said, I was on your website. I was reading some of your articles and it said that you were a SEO content writer. Can you explain to us what SEO is and the importance of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course. So SEO is search engine optimization. It's basically what allows your website or your business to be searchable or visible on Google or other search engine sites too. So SEO is going to be different words or phrases that have to do with the problem that your company is solving. So, for example, so with your podcast, the Clever Angle like a couple of keywords or phrases for your podcast that somebody might want to type into Google is I want to learn more about different career options, or something like that. Or I'm trying to think of a better example. So I think I put this in one of my blog posts recently. So if you're a fishing bait shop, you want your website to come up when somebody types into Google, like if they put how to best Bait near me, or like where to get the best fishing equipment near me, or something like that. There's all these different keywords and phrases associated with that business that you want your company to show up on Google, if that makes sense. I pictured that, but I hope I was being clear.
Speaker 1:You definitely are. So you're saying that using search engine optimization because, like I said, I read your blog post. It's going to help you be more or Find a guess. So when I search for something, I'm going to be in the first, on the first page is the goal right.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, that's kind of what you're competing for when you're optimizing your website or your business for SEO. Is you want your website to show up on that first page of Google when someone types a question into it?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. So how do you use that? So how would I use that if I was wanting to do something with my podcast? So if I reach out to you and say, hey, I need to, I want to take my podcast to the next level, one of the one of the things on your blog that I saw was that blogs are a Good way to still be searchable. It's one of those things that are is going to live on the internet for I guess you said two years. How would I Use search engine optimization to help my podcast?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the two years thing is also. That's just an average, but a lot of people think that Blogging is something that's outdated. Blogging is for the early 2000s. Like nobody writes blogs anymore, nobody reads blogs anymore, but blogging is arguably one of the most important marketing strategies that companies can use. So for your podcast. Like. The cool thing that you could honestly do with your podcast if you wanted to is you could take different episodes and Cycle the content and then make a blog post about your episode and within that blog post you can use keywords and phrases like how like for Taylor's episode, you could do how to become a physician recruiter, or what degree do you need to become a physician recruiter. Like you could insert those keywords strategically into a blog post on your website and then that would help Google Index your site and then suggest that to people when they're typing that in now, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:That's something I never really even thought of, and I was definitely in the camp of Thinking that blogging was one of those things that people really don't do anymore. But a lot of the content that you still, that we still consume, is from blog post, is from articles on the internet. So that's interesting, that it's one of those things that, even with the increase in YouTube and Podcasting and all these other sources of media, that blog posts are still a viable way to get discovered, no matter what kind of business you have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, companies with SEO optimized blogs get, on average, 67% more leads than websites without a blog. And then there's another statistic I have, which is 79% of the best in-class marketers ranked blogs as the most effective marketing strategy. There's lots of marketing strategies out. You know. Social media is important, newsletters are important, but I think you saw my blog post too. It's like Social media is important, but the shelf life is also not really there, like I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but Twitter, instagram posts, tiktoks they usually only last or are good for about for hours or a few days or a few weeks at most, where, and like you shared before a blog post have an average shelf life of two years but can go a lot longer.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Can you explain to me what copywriting is? Copywriting is something that when you look online about hey, these are the skills you need to learn If you want to try to make some money on the side or if you're thinking about doing a different career like in the top 10 Is always copywriting. But I guess I'm not really sure exactly what that is. Could you explain that to me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. Copywriting is really just any word that you write to sell something. So you can think about the words on an ad or the words in a product description on a website or Even social media captions. So it's really just as simple as that. The kind of a psychology behind copywriting, like the kinds of words that you use, the way that you structure something like that's going to Lead more of your leads and your website and convert them into buyers there's a psychology and there's a skill set behind that. But basically, copywriting is any word that you write to sell something.
Speaker 1:Oh, I got you. So people are hiring copywriters with the intention of using those words to sell something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and copywriting. So technically content writing, because I'm an SEO content writer. Technically, content writing and copywriting are different. They're really under the same umbrella. An example of content writing might be longer form content, like writing a blog or a podcast script or a newsletter, but a blog can also be being used to sell something as well. So they're different technically, but it's all in the same. You know, it's the same kind of a thing.
Speaker 1:I got you, so do you do like copywriting and content writing? You said there was a little bit of a difference there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do both. I my primary service is I will write blog, seo blogs, and that can be to sell a specific product or service, but it can also just be on About whatever topic is within the niche in the company that I'm working for. So I definitely do both my primary services, I would say. Or I write blogs and I write newsletters.
Speaker 1:So one thing that I was wondering about the job that you do is what, or some of the pros and cons, would you say, of working remote. I would say, um, I would say both a pro and con of working remote is freedom over your schedule.
Speaker 2:I think it's something that it's really great, but it's also super glamorized and I think it's a lot harder than people think, and I think anybody who works remote, whether they have a nine to five or whether they're an entrepreneur or a solo pernure or whatever They'll know what I mean.
Speaker 2:But so there's this thing that Jordan Peterson says, which is you're a bad employee and a worse boss and you sometimes, in order to stay on track, and If you don't have a routine or you're not really forced into a routine through going to an office job, you have to negotiate yourself, like you would with a little kid, to get things done. You know, if you have a to-do list and you want to get a certain amount of things done, you could be like Okay, once I do that, I'm gonna go ahead and do a little bit of a job and I'm gonna do a little bit of a job. And if you want to get a certain amount of things done, you could be like, okay, once I do, xyz, I can go get a coffee or I can go read a chapter of a book that I like. It's, it's great, but it's also it's a big responsibility and undertaking to Manage yourself and stay on track and make sure that you're being productive too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, are you familiar with the dark playground? So, I was listening to modern wisdom. I can't remember the episode.
Speaker 1:It was one of his more recent episodes and he said he was working on a book and there's four different concepts, but one I was passively listening to it while I was driving at work and it was one of his concepts was the dark playground. So basically, it's whatever we do, that kind of puts off what we need to be doing. So if we need, if you needed to write a blog post and you decided to watch a movie, and no, you should probably be writing the blog post, or oh, I'm going to take the dog for a walk, or I'm going to go do this. You're doing these things that are not really Bringing you joy, like they normally would, because you know you have something to do. That would be an example at the dark playground.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, totally, I could definitely so could you tell me about One of your favorite writing projects that you've done?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so One of my favorite writing projects was when I was still living in virginia. Um, so I lived in a town called lynchburg it's where liberty university is. Some people might know about liberty, but in lynchburg they had this downtown lynchburg association and it's. Lynchburg is a city that has really grown over the past 10 years At least that's what people tell me after I moved there. Especially the downtown area, like it has just grown and blossomed and there's so many new businesses and restaurants and stuff like that and it's a really cool community. Oh, everybody's really it's really close knit, a lot of support.
Speaker 2:So the downtown lynchburg association was putting on this project called the hill city eats project and basically they were emulating that's some people were doing in richmond, virginia. A couple years prior, richmond made this coffee table style cookbook with a bunch of different recipes from the restaurants in downtown Richmond, so like a little bio about each restaurant and the owner's story and lots of like really cool racks to riches stories, and then they would have a recipe of something that they served in the restaurant so you could make it at home and it was also just beautiful and aesthetically pleasing and that kind of a thing. So because we had so much growth in Lynchburg, they decided to do something similar and they called it Hill City Eats. So I got to do that, which was really cool. I was one of the writers on the project, so I profiled nine different restaurants and they ended up publishing it too, which was really cool. So now I can say now I'm a published author, and that was really fun.
Speaker 2:Another project I really enjoyed was for about a year and a half I had a client who they had a pretty big self development slash journaling company and they had these daily podcasts about self development and I was one of the writers on their team and I would help, you know, write out the podcast scripts. And I love personal development. It's my favorite topic to write about and we there's a lot of creative freedom, so that was really fun too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think personal development is definitely become mainstream and it's good because I think that there's a lot of great teachers and educators out there that are helping people be better versions of themselves. So that's cool. I mean, you got to work on that personal development project and then you know it, you got to work on the project in Virginia as well. That is, it was really interesting and I honestly had a podcast idea about where I would go to different restaurants and review the different things that they had. It was going to be called first bite. I mean, I have all these things that are cool swirling around in my head and stuff like that, so it's interesting to kind of pick something that we're kind of in that same ballpark too as one of your favorite projects. We talked a little bit about putting off things and time management. Do you? What are some tips that you use to stay on track and prevent procrastination, because, being a writer, you probably have deadlines and things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. I think sometimes I would say on the worst days being a freelance writer feels like you're a college student and you have a million papers due in the same week. That's like at its worst. So if you don't manage your calendar, if you procrastinate a lot, it's the same thing as like being in college. You know white knuckling a 10 page paper right before it's due. So obviously you don't want to do that because it's not very pleasant and also the quality is probably not going to be there either.
Speaker 2:So I do have to stay pretty on, organized and on top of my deadlines. I know that per for me, I do my best work when I can spread a writing project out over a couple of days or even longer. So one of the things that I found really helpful is I so when I would say that it's really important to give your clients a realistic timeline. I think there's a really fast turnover that can be tough and that can burn you out really fast, but if you know how long something takes you and you're realistic about how much time and effort that's going to take, I think you can set yourself up for success for sure.
Speaker 2:I'm really communicating and no setting strong boundaries are like OK, this is how much work it's going to take, this is how many hours I know it's going to take me.
Speaker 2:I need to be able to spread this out across multiple days or multiple weeks, and the first day I work on a project, it might just be ideating and outlining and doing research, and then, a couple of days later, I'll come back to it and write a stronger outline and then I'll do the bulk of the writing the next day and then maybe the next week I go back and edit everything. I think it's really important as a writer to have time in between, because when you write something and you give yourself some space and some time away from it, you'll come back and notice all the mistakes that you made or like it's just so easy to miss stuff if you start a project from start to finish within a couple of hours. So I think it's really important to give yourself time, just soak everything in and also come up with the new ideas or a better way to say something. So I think that really helps me a lot.
Speaker 1:Do you ever struggle with writers block? Is there ever a time where you sit down and you just can't get started, because you mentioned writing a paper and I instantly went back to comp, to having a right about something that you don't want to write about. And then I just can't get started and then eventually you write the paper and then you get the grade back and all that, but yeah yeah, definitely, I think.
Speaker 2:but I think honestly what really helps is if you are a freelance writer, choosing a niche that's interesting, if you like. There are certain topics that I can write about forever and never get bored of, but there are also topics that, like, I can't even squeeze a paper out of because I'm just so bored for that by the information or I don't care, or whatever. So it's really important to be in an industry that you are knowledgeable about and are interested in. I think that really helps.
Speaker 2:With writers block, I've definitely had moments though still I think it's inevitable where you sit down and it's like the words are just not coming, and that's why it's also really important to make sure that you have enough time before your deadline, because if you sit down and try and write something and it's just not happening, you can take a few minutes and then come back to it and then maybe the writers block will have passed. But at the same time, like, your clients are depending on you. So sometimes you just got to write it. You just, even if you don't want to, or even if nothing's coming to you, if you sit there long enough, you know you'll get past it.
Speaker 1:So what are some of those topics that you feel like you can write forever about?
Speaker 2:Self development for sure. I just think there's like an endless amount. I think psychology is really interesting, the gym philosophy. I'm definitely like an ideas person, so I think all that stuff is really interesting. I would say also so like one of my clients right now. She's a pretty big matchmaker in New York City and I just think the stuff that she talks about is so fun and interesting and she's she's like she's so funny. She's got this great comedic undertone to all the stuff that she says and the advice that she gets to people, so that, you know, entertaining and I like to write about that and I really enjoy working with her. And then also just anything that I know is going to help somebody and help change their life or help them get the support that they need, anything that feels meaningful. That's pretty easy to write about too.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. So storytelling storytelling is definitely a big thing. When it comes to writing, reading. We all want to read stories, listen to stories, watch stories that unfold in a good way. Can you tell us a little bit about your creative process and how you go about just structuring your articles, blog posts and things like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I don't know. It's funny. I think a lot of it is subconscious now, like I've just gotten in the habit of following a certain structure, so kind of second nature, I will say. There is a kind of storing, still a storytelling structure that I came across and this is super valuable when it comes to anything like copywriting, whether you're designing your website for your business and you're writing the copy for everything, or if you're writing a blog or whatever it may be. So there's this thing, and I don't some of your listeners might be familiar with this.
Speaker 2:Joseph Campbell has this thing called the heroes journey, which is like the classic storytelling structure that you see in any movie, like, if you pay attention, star Wars or Harry Potter or any of the Tom Cruise movies. Like they all it's a different story, but they all follow the same structure, and it starts out as there's a hero who has a problem, who then meets a guide. That guide gives the hero a plan which exhorts him into action, and then that either results in success or failure, and you can follow that formula for your business too. So there is an author his name is Donald Miller and I would actually recommend this book for anybody who has a business who, if they don't want to hire a copywriter this is the only book that they'll ever need to write their own copy and he uses this heroes journey structure to build a website that's super readable, that converts more leads into buyers, and you basically make the customer the hero and then your companies that guide, leading them towards the result that they want. So I have found that structure to be pretty foolproof.
Speaker 1:What are some of your favorite stories?
Speaker 2:Hmm, that's a good question. I love Harry Potter. I think that's. That's something I rewatch just about every year. It's funny I this is something that I've learned about, definitely more recently. Growing up, I read a lot of nonfiction, which doesn't necessarily follow the same storytelling structure, but I'm more recently. I've been reading more fiction and missing this pattern in a lot of the books that I've been reading. So, but yeah, I love it, like fantasy novels, like I just read this book called Fourth Wing that's got dragons in it and super cool Harry Potter Akatar, that kind of a thing.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I can just just think to remember the Spies and reading when I was a kid. But I found this series by James Patterson called Maximum Ride and it's a fantasy book series about how these kids that got experimented on and they have wings and they're getting hunted and I can definitely resonate with liking that style of story. For sure I'll definitely have to. What did you say the book was called that you just finished? It's called yeah, it's called, oh the one, I just the fantasy one with dragons.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it's called. Fourth Wing and the sequel just came out to. I still need to read the sequel, but it's pretty great.
Speaker 1:Have you ever experienced any type of imposter syndrome? Why would people want to pay me for my services, that sort of thing? I know that a lot of people that I've interviewed have struggled with this a little bit of, you know, not feeling good enough. My brother, he has a photography business and I know that he was battling his own demons in the fact of it took him like a year to get started because he knew that his work was good but he kind of undercharged for his services, not thinking that, oh, someone's not going to pay me X for this. Have you ever struggled with something like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and I think it's especially difficult for people like your brother who are in photography or like in any industry where the rates aren't like identical, like one person will have different rates from another person. In stuff Like whether you're freelance writer, freelance graphic designer, freelance photographer, your rates are arbitrary. You just make them up yourself. So that was the thing that was hardest for me, because, naturally, like I think like imposter syndrome is real and it's really easy to get in your head about like why, why, what's up, pay me for? Like, especially when you're starting out, you're like I don't know what I'm doing, like I haven't done this before. So you're like I guess I'll just accept pennies and that'll be okay. But I think having like support or some people in your circle who are maybe doing something similar to you can really help.
Speaker 2:I'm in different freelance saying Facebook groups and sometimes people will just like they'll put a, they'll make a post in there, like a project that they're working on. They're like hey, here, like I'm, this is the project, here's the scope, here's everything that it's going to be, this is what I'm going to tell them that I'm like that the rate is what do you think about that? And a lot of people will go in and be like hey, you're really undercharging, like I do the same thing and I charge this much, and so seeing what other people charge for the same thing that you do, I think that really helps validate, like where your pricing comes from. I think it's also really important to understand, like the value that you're delivering and like it's important that your rate and the value that your client is going to match, because I just think a lot of people really undersell themselves, like they solve problems that are really important but they're not even really charging with that. Solving that problem is worth.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We live in a world where convenience is becoming more and more of a thing. So if you order DoorDash and the same meal that you could have gotten yourself, there's all these fees that people are willing to pay for the convenience. So if you're able to solve a problem that a lot of people have, that becomes more valuable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, definitely. I heard a quote one time that just stuck with me. I don't remember where I heard it, but it was basically somebody saying you will get paid in proportion to the size of the problem that you solve. So the bigger problems that you can solve, the more money that you can make.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. This isn't really from a website or anything. This is just through my experience, is something that I've come up with and it's the four pillars of a good job, career. So I think financial compensation, management If you some kind of boss or, like in your case, if you manage yourself, work, life balance and benefits. With those four things in mind, we'll just go through one one of them at a time, so we'll go financial compensation first. Out of 10. How would you rate your career?
Speaker 2:I would say probably a nine or a 10. Freelance writing can be super lucrative if you persevere in our patient. It depends on your niche. So if you're working in tech, that's going to be different than working in education and that kind of a thing. But I've talked to people. I know people can. You can make a really strong six figure income and you can also have the time freedom that comes along with it Not to say there aren't challenges, but I think there is a lot of potential for some good financial compensation. So, yeah, maybe a nine out of 10. That's awesome. So the work life balance.
Speaker 1:One thing that I really struggled with in my last position was so I ran a warehouse for the better part of two years and at the time it was the most money that I'd ever made. So it was good from a financial standpoint, but the work life balance part was way off. I was working 16 17 hour days and wasn't getting to see my family. I was. My diet was off. I wasn't getting to train like I wanted to. What is the work life balance Like? How do you balance your projects versus your personal life? Out of 10? Yeah, I would say that this is a good balance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say that this is this is also going to be an eight or nine out of 10, but there's a caveat, and the caveat is you have to have strong boundaries. You can have a fantastic work life balance, like I know some people. So there's this whole community of people actually called they call themselves digital nomads and they basically just travel the world and then they work like a lot of freelancers, like they're not working full time hours, they're working part time hours, but they're making a full time income. So you can have a really great, healthy work life balance and you don't have to start work until the time that you want to start work. You're probably not going to be working in eight hour or eight hour work day. You're probably going to be working more, like four or five hours maybe. So there's a lot of potential there.
Speaker 2:But you have to also be really careful and conscious of your workload, because it can be really easy to take too much on or, if you're not charging enough and you have to take on more clients in order to compensate for that income, that can take a toll on you, like you were saying, like your health, and I've definitely been in that situation before where I just like the turnover times were too fast, it was too much, and I wasn't able to prioritize, like my health and that kind of a thing, the way that I would have wanted to. So, again, the potential is there, that's. The skill that you have to learn along the way is how to set those boundaries.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and so benefits. So this could be anything from things that your job allows you to do Do you have a pension or 401k, things like that? So we'll go benefits next. What are some of the benefits of being a freelance writer?
Speaker 2:Sure. So I would say the benefits definitely like time freedom is going to be the biggest one is you just you are not like a chain to a desk for eight hours. You're probably going to have most of your day free. So that's a huge benefit and that allows you. You're working remote, so if you want to go travel, you can just take your work with you. That's a huge benefit. And you also just you get a lot of autonomy over independence over the clients that you're choosing and the work that you want to do. So that's really great. The only thing I would give benefits maybe a seven out of 10 because as a freelancer slash solopreneur, you don't. You don't have a pension like literal, like work benefits, you don't have insurance. You have to pay for all those things that yourself you can build those into your rights so that you can afford them. But you're not going to have that cush, those cushy, same cushy benefits that you get from a traditional nine to five job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then we talked a little bit about this earlier. It was management, so like managing yourself. How would you rate that verse being in a job before where you're, you've got like a structure boss and a structure power dynamic within the company. How would you rate essentially being a solopreneur or being your own boss? How would you rate that out of 10?
Speaker 2:8 out of 10. I think I mean the same as before. There's pros and cons, but I think if you can figure out how to manage yourself, it can be really nice to have that independence and choice over your working style and how many hours you want to work and that kind of a thing.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. One of the last things that I like to do is okay, so we've talked about your journey, we talked about how you've got there. What do you? Where do you see yourself in the next one to two years? What are some of your goals for your business?
Speaker 2:So I'm right now I'm actually looking to diversify a little bit and make money through multiple different outlets. So I have freelancing, but also, like my personal writing is really important to me. So about a month ago I started a sub stack and sub stack is really cool because you can write a newsletter and people. It's a good way for people to discover you. It's kind of like a social media platform, like a Facebook or a Twitter, but for writers and people can also support you for a few bucks a month. So if you have a strong following on there, that can be a nice like secondary income.
Speaker 1:And I would also.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly. It's pretty cool. You can discover some really interesting people on there, a lot of, actually, like famous authors like I don't know about James Patterson, but there's a lot of other authors who have written books, who also have a sub-stack so you can follow along with their writing, aside from just the books that they're publishing. So it's pretty cool. I'd also like to write a book at some point, because I know there's a way to kind of monetize that and get another stream of income through that, and then I'd also. My goal is really to keep a roster of about two to three, maybe four, clients and have a workload of about 15 to 20 hours a week, while making a consistent, you know, viable income Down the road. I'd love to invest some of that cash flow into real estate, but that's probably a few years away. But that's come. I plan for the foreseeable future.
Speaker 1:No, that's cool. I definitely want to get into real estate myself. It'll be one of the next few episodes that I'll release on here. I'll be interviewing a real estate agent to pick his brain on what are the steps to get to owning your first property outside of a home. Be on the lookout for that. So well, yeah, I've really enjoyed hearing your story. So could you give the listeners like, if you were to go back to your 18, 19, that's exactly what you want to do what would be the roadmap of how you would get there quicker? What's the most efficient roadmap to becoming a freelance writer?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the main thing is to just take action quickly, like even if you don't have all the information or you feel like you're going to do it wrong. I think it's good to just jump in and get started. In terms of specifics, though, would I would tell my past self for anybody who's interested in becoming a freelance writer to choose a niche. So your niche should be like an industry or a topic that you maybe already have some background knowledge in and that you also like and want to write about and also has some. There's some money in that industry. So that could be tech, that could be the lifestyle niche, that could be pet care, whatever. So it's important to choose a niche, because once you choose one, you can become an expert in that, and the further down that road you go, the more money that you can charge people. So, once you choose a niche, I'd recommend choosing one or two services you want to offer.
Speaker 2:So, whether that's copywriting like you want to write people's product descriptions on their website, or you want to write ad copy, or if you want to write blogs I would choose one or two services to focus on, get really good at, get a lot of practice with, and then you want to make a portfolio of at least three sample pieces that you can show to potential clients.
Speaker 2:So whatever services you want to offer, you want to come up with some examples of those like what those services might look like. You don't have to work with a client before you can make that portfolio. You can write they call it writing on spec which basically you can just pretend that, like a company hired you to write their product descriptions and then write their product descriptions, as long as you put on there like this piece was written on spec, that's totally fine to use and then from there just jump in. You don't even need a website. You can have a website, but your portfolio could literally just be a folder on Google Drive that you share with a potential client. So it can be really simple.
Speaker 1:No, that's awesome and I think that there's going to be a lot of people that get value out of the conversation that we've had today. Where can people find you and connect with you and your services on social media? Your website? Where can they go?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. If you're interested in working with me, my website is alainaferriscom and my. You can also reach out to me on Instagram. On my Instagram, I think it's alainaemferris, and also, if you're interested in just following along with me on Substack, I have a free newsletter you can follow and that's just going to be substackcom slash at Alaina Ferris.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, we will definitely include all of Elena's information where you can find her if you would want to work with her, if you want to follow along on her substack. We will have all of that in the show notes. Is there anything else that you want to get out there before we let you go?
Speaker 2:I don't think so. Thank you so much for this opportunity, though it was great to talk to you, absolutely.
Speaker 1:This has been another episode of the Clever Angle podcast. Thank you today to our guest Elena for coming on and sharing her story and her interesting career with us. Thank you everyone for listening and until next time, peace.
